To think holding a vigil outside Marie Stopes is wrong? and to wish there was something I could do (may be upsetting)

[Menolly]

The local Catholic church is planning another vigil next week outside Marie Stopes, I am Catholic although attend a different parish (because I disagree with this ones overly judgmental congregation and uncaring priest). I think it is a horrible thing to be doing, I can see the clinic from my flat and at the last one they blocked the pavement meaning that people had to ask them to move to get through, whether they were going to the clinic or up the road (which leads to the high street, train stations, bus stops etc.).

They do move out the way when asked and they are peaceful whilst there, just singing and praying the rosary, however if I was a teenage girl going in for advice or was in some terrible situation where I needed their services I'm not sure I'd be brave enough to push my way through. Ignoring the fact that the clinic also does STD testing, contraceptive advice, smear tests etc, an abortion isn't an easy thing to go through whatever the circumstances and I think adding to that stress is a terrible thing to do, then considering that these people don't know that the woman they are upsetting aren't going there because they've been raped or because of some other horrible circumstance it makes me really angry.

My eldest child was conceived through rape when I was just 15, I kept him and he's beautiful and I have never regretted that decision but I had a lot of family support that other women might not have and there was a time when I did look at my options and having a bunch of judgmental people singing outside whilst I was trying to get advice would have made things much harder for me at a time when I seriously considered suicide, I hated myself for letting that happen to me and felt guilty for all the stress it put on my parents, I felt I was being judged constantly and lost my own faith for a long time because I couldn't stand the thought that God would let that happen or the guilt and judging associated with church and I hate the idea that people would do something so insensitive and could push someone to making the wrong decision or feeling even worse.

I find the vigils upsetting and I could hear them singing from my living room last time, what I went through was nearly 10 years ago now, I can't imagine how much worse it would be for someone who had been through something more recently or had less support.

I just wish there was something I could do to make these people, who I am sure think they are doing a good thing, see how harmful their vigil could be, but so far I can't think of any way of doing that...

So AIBU to think they shouldn't being doing this? Also if anyone can think of a peaceful way of showing my disgust I'd be grateful.

I know people who have regretted abortions deeply.
And I know several people who have had abortions and not regretted it one jot.
Furthermore, I have two friends who had pregnancies where the fetus had anencephaly. One was able to have a late abortion, which is what she wanted and believed minimised her trauma; the other (in Dublin) was forced to go full term and give birth to a baby whose life was not viable. I know which one was most traumatic for the mother. Seeing her go through this made me very, very pro-choice.

Let's not pretend that all abortions happen because babies have serious deformities incompatible with life.

Many would argue that this is not the only or primary consideration, but that the woman whose life will be impacted by giving birth against her will has the right to bodily autonomy.

Maybe a bit strong but as I said I have no issue with them protesting quietly in a less insensitive place, I just don't think holding a vigil outside a clinic, with the aim of converting vulnerable women to Catholicism and praying for the foetus' whilst blocking the street is the right way of doing it, the pro-life charities that stand in the town center with a little table and some leaflets are fine, I still don't agree with their views but they are peaceful and easy enough to avoid.

A protest like this however is not quiet, so whilst I don't have to look on, I still have to listen to it, as does the nursery a couple of doors down and people wanting to get from the car park to the pedestrianised bit of the town center will have to walk through it.

I had to walk past those people when I had my TFMR at 16 weeks. It was a bad time, made worse by them.

8 years later, I'm happy and entirely comfortable with my decision. The only way I can fight their sanctimony is to put my experience out there and hopefully reassure some women that you can go through this and be ok and no it doesn't make you become a child abuser or whatever else the pro life people want to claim. It was a good decision at a bad time and I am passionate about ensuring that all women have this option available to them if they want it.

A very cool person I know volunteers her time to escort people past such protests in the USA. There is the same debate in the US about one group's right to provide counselling (read- protest) versus another group's right to receive medical attention.

I find her experiences really interesting, and can't believe the tactics these people use.

sherights.com/2014/04/03/when-does-a-sidewalk-counselor-become-a-protester/

I have nc'd to post this, as I might let her know about this discussion, and I don't want to out myself wrt my previous posts!

er why do we have to pretend anything.

abortion is a woman's right and in my view she should t have to give her reason to anyone or justify herself to anyone either.

Who is pretending anything about abortions?

I support any woman's choice to have an abortion. There isn't a sliding scale of reasons for that choice from "acceptable - not good enough".

I believe it is much the same for all pro-choice people.

I find "pro-life" a deliberately provocative and offensive title by the by.

there should be exclusion zones around medical facilities to stop these wack jobs from picketing.

no one called the Catholic Church scum but they, as do all religious organisations, have some fairly scummy views.

I call someone upsetting and harassing a pregnant woman or anyone accessing medical treatment scum though as they are.

Alis the pretending comment was from pit as if a woman needs to justify her decision.

thebody I know, I just realised I didn't put her name in the post! .

media report about local protest group who admit to filming women as they enter clinic but say 'we are filming for our own security' yeah. right.

they should take their stupid placards elsewhr, horrid people that bully the vulnerable in to their way of thinking.

unfortunately they've probably all been brainwashed by their faith.

sod the woman she's just an incubator lets just have thousands of unwanted babies instead, because is such a fantastic alternative.

What they say they do to vulnerable women

The pavement counsellors are the ones who approach the woman going in to have the abortion and ask her to reconsider her decision. It is surprising that the woman often has not been given much factual information about what happens in an abortion. The pavement counsellors educate her about the baby’s biological development in her womb and help her to understand the exact manner in which the abortion will kill her child. They will also warn her of the physical harm the abortion may cause to her own body. The woman will be provided with literature & details of the help available i.e. financial, medical & spiritual help. The pavement counsellors will also talk to the father of the baby. If the woman decides to go ahead with the abortion, she will be reminded that we will pray for her and be waiting outside

What they say they do to clinic staff

The consciences of the abortion site staff will be disturbed by our presence there, making them feel ashamed so that they can reform their lives and change their work to something that will contribute to society and not destroy it. The workers at the abortion site should feel uncomfortable when they come to work. It should not be pleasant to get up in the morning to kill babies. They should have to be confronted by God each time they start their workday. Our message to the abortionist and his staff is that we love them but will never accept what they do.

So, harassment then. A course of conduct causing alarm and distress.

In the UK harassment is

^S.2 offence Harassment
The elements of the section 2 offence are:

a course of conduct;
which amounts to harassment of another; and
which the defendant knows, or ought to know amounts to harassment of another.
Or section 1(1A), as inserted by section 125(2) of the Serious Organised Crime and Police Act 2005 (SOCPA)

a course of conduct;
which involves harassment of two or more persons; and
which the defendant knows or ought to know involves harassment of those persons;
by which he intends to persuade any person (whether or not one of those mentioned above);
not to do something that he is entitled or required to do; or
to do something that he is not under any obligation to do.
As a summary only offence, the section 2 offence requires an information or complaint to be laid within 6 months from the time when the offence was committed, or the matter of complaint arose. The 6 months' limitation should run from the last date of the course of conduct alleged.

In determining whether the defendant ought to know that the course of conduct amounts to harassment, the question to be considered is whether a reasonable person in possession of the same information would think the course of conduct amounted to harassment of the other.^

Looks clear enough to me.
Link to UK Crown Prosecution site

Pit - I am sickened by reading your posts.
I haven't seen one poster saying that individuals should not have the right to protest, it is about the utter insensitivity of where they are carrying out their protest. And it isn't about having full confidence in your decision either, it's not quite as simple as that. I hope that you never have to go through what these women who use these facilities have to go through. However it might make you see just how ignorant and clueless you are.

The pavement counsellors are the ones who approach the woman going in to have the abortion and ask her to reconsider her decision.

Oh really!? BACP accredited are they, these counsellors?

And tell me this, where is the support for women who are FORCED to carry a child to term knowing that it WILL NOT SURVIVE? Because I have searched high and low for some type of support service and quite frankly, they do not exist, church affiliated ones or otherwise. These so called pro-lifers are very quick and loud to protest against abortion but what exactly do they think should happen with the alternative? And your statement about not pretending that lots of terminations are for abnormalities that are incompatible with life, you are correct, they are for a variety of reasons but does that mean women like me should just get swept under the carpet? It is a real issue and whether there are 10 or 1000 in a year the issue has to be addressed and these protesters need to be aware of it.
I am disgusted.

Ali

yep disgusting is the word Baby and good point about counsellors fideline

they should be stopped. surely it's a crime under harassment laws.

"where is the support for women who are FORCED to carry a child to term knowing that it WILL NOT SURVIVE? "

see above link to life charity - counselling provided for all circumstances ( including post-abortion)

I've attended one of those counselling sessions,it did not feel like counselling or support to me

Really needs . I love my counselling to come in the form of judgemental, cooercive religious dogma. I INSIST on it. Maybe you were not fully open to the process?

Bumbley - nothing there with regard to support for my type of situation.

twofingers, perhaps not but it does show that some pro-lifers do care about the women before and after they have given birth - not just the foetus as some people are suggesting.

Even though Life claim an abortion is never the answer?

And if you are going to say A major longitudinal study of over 600,000 women has revealed that having an abortion for a first time pregnancy can increase the risk of future premature births by a significant 37%. Researchers at the University of Aberdeen says the 26 year study was the largest ever population based study of reproductive outcomes.

You should really be able to link to the study.

Pit I am not catholic but I find all the anti Catholic attitude just really uneducated...and simplistic.....ahh because you have seen a few movies....right...well that means you can dismiss millions of people followinga Religion as scum....

Er no, I, along with many many people actually experienced some of the horror of RC life, education, values, misogyny, cult of the foetus, covering up of harm etc etc.

You will find many many critics of the RC church are ex RC. You will also find that many many people who identify as RC do not agree with many teachings.

You will also find that many many people who identify as RC do not agree with many teachings.

Exactly sashh, I am Catholic, my big brother is preparing to be a priest, the majority of my very large family are part of the Legion of Mary, none of us agree with pro-life vigils outside clinics, nor do the majority of the parish I attend.