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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

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To think holding a vigil outside Marie Stopes is wrong? and to wish there was something I could do (may be upsetting)

999 replies

Menolly · 03/04/2014 00:08

The local Catholic church is planning another vigil next week outside Marie Stopes, I am Catholic although attend a different parish (because I disagree with this ones overly judgmental congregation and uncaring priest). I think it is a horrible thing to be doing, I can see the clinic from my flat and at the last one they blocked the pavement meaning that people had to ask them to move to get through, whether they were going to the clinic or up the road (which leads to the high street, train stations, bus stops etc.).

They do move out the way when asked and they are peaceful whilst there, just singing and praying the rosary, however if I was a teenage girl going in for advice or was in some terrible situation where I needed their services I'm not sure I'd be brave enough to push my way through. Ignoring the fact that the clinic also does STD testing, contraceptive advice, smear tests etc, an abortion isn't an easy thing to go through whatever the circumstances and I think adding to that stress is a terrible thing to do, then considering that these people don't know that the woman they are upsetting aren't going there because they've been raped or because of some other horrible circumstance it makes me really angry.

My eldest child was conceived through rape when I was just 15, I kept him and he's beautiful and I have never regretted that decision but I had a lot of family support that other women might not have and there was a time when I did look at my options and having a bunch of judgmental people singing outside whilst I was trying to get advice would have made things much harder for me at a time when I seriously considered suicide, I hated myself for letting that happen to me and felt guilty for all the stress it put on my parents, I felt I was being judged constantly and lost my own faith for a long time because I couldn't stand the thought that God would let that happen or the guilt and judging associated with church and I hate the idea that people would do something so insensitive and could push someone to making the wrong decision or feeling even worse.

I find the vigils upsetting and I could hear them singing from my living room last time, what I went through was nearly 10 years ago now, I can't imagine how much worse it would be for someone who had been through something more recently or had less support.

I just wish there was something I could do to make these people, who I am sure think they are doing a good thing, see how harmful their vigil could be, but so far I can't think of any way of doing that...

So AIBU to think they shouldn't being doing this? Also if anyone can think of a peaceful way of showing my disgust I'd be grateful.

OP posts:
hankyspanky · 03/04/2014 06:20

Menolly, I would be up for joining you in a rival vigil!

It disgusts me that these so called 'Christians' are judging people in this way.

Pitmountainpony · 03/04/2014 06:39

Of course they are judging. They think it is wrong to abort a fetus. Do you think Christans were some weird breed of human that does not judge moral actions? There are many types of Christians but the Christian belief system clearly has certain moral standpoints, and for many Christians the act of killing human beings is judged as wrong. For Catholics life is sacred and they view the fetus as a life.

They perhaps find it disgusting that you don't judge.
I judge things I think are wrong every day and thank goodness we have powers of judgement. It is an intrinsic part of being human.
Go have your alternative protest. You have every right to do that and thank goodness you do.

VashtaNerada · 03/04/2014 06:43

There comes a point where "peaceful protest" becomes "public order offence" and I would be speaking to the police if it happened near me.

sashh · 03/04/2014 06:56

Of course they will protest. How could they not, given that is their belief on a pretty emotive issue......in their view the taking of a young human life.

Surely the best place to protest then would be outside parliament? Shouldn't they be lobbying MPs not people entering a clinic?

What about the poster up thread who was hounded in a taxi AFTER visiting the clinic? What possible motive could they have for that? They couldn't stop her termination, so they banged on windows and insulted her, that is not a protest that is bullying.

Very few terminations are at 24 weeks. Just because it is sometimes possible, with a lot of medical intervention, to save a child at 24 weeks does not make 24weeks viable.

How many 24 week babies would survive in the 1950s? Or in a developing country?

daisychain01 · 03/04/2014 07:08

Im fine with people standing on a street corner in a neutral place protesting about anything they want.

I am not at all fine about them doing it where there are vulnerable women who will be upset by their action. That isnt what a free country should look like. There has to be consideration for those poor souls who are in the awful situation of needing to consider having an abortion.

Menolly if you do decide to do a peaceful counter-protest, stay safe.

WhosLookingAfterCourtney · 03/04/2014 07:13

I would be disassociating myself from the catholic church if I were you.

Pitmountainpony · 03/04/2014 07:14

I agree that is bullying and unacceptable. The taxi story.
Yes but the point is we strive to save a child once it hits 24 weeks and if you interfered with its life support system you would be accused of murder.....so that is a little bit of an odd situation.
Not everyone thinks viability is what distinguishes a foetusbeing a human life. Some babies beyond 24 weeks struggle to survive without medical help, but we intervene to help them survive.
Anyway my point which I have clearly been keen to make us that these people don't just want to change the law, they want to make a stand for beings they believe have a right to life, and I think it is pretty obvious they will protest at the places where they deem those lives to be terminated. But bullying. No I do not support that.

Cyclebump · 03/04/2014 07:15

We have a clinic near us and I find it upsetting when catholic protesters stand outside with their placards and judgement too. Like you op, what worries me is that vulnerable women will be too afraid or ashamed to seek the advice and help they need. The ones near me occasionally accost those going inside and thirst leaflets at them too.

There's another church group near me that offers advice to pregnant women but they also collect donated baby gear (buggies, clothing etc) and distribute it to those in need . Their stance is very much that if you want the baby but are frightened you won't have support we will help you. I respect their proactive and practical approach and vastly prefer it to the protestors 'you're wrong to even consider abortion' stance.

JumpingJackSprat · 03/04/2014 07:19

They can protest wherever they like, true, but by targeting vulnerable people, what makes them any different to the westboro baptist Church who I think pretty much everyone would agree are abhorrent people? They also act according to their belief system. The people they are accosting at marie stopes might "find god" whatever that means but god isn't going to help support their baby or help with the reasons why they feel a need an abortion. I can't wait for the day organised religion is no more. Sadly it probably won't be in my life time.

LaurieFairyCake · 03/04/2014 07:29

They are not aborting 24 week old babies at that clinic, only very early pregnancy.

They are protesting because they see all human life as sacred even the cluster of cells that the 6 week foetus represents.

If you want to start an alternative vigil I will come along and bring cake plus a sign that reads 'Jesus doesn't judge, only love'

I may also have to be restrained from yelling at the men for daring to have a fucking public opinion. I'd be trying to shame the women too.

I've always thought Jesus would be out back waiting for them to come out with tea and muffins and a hug. But clearly that's my god and not theirs.

HowContraryMary · 03/04/2014 07:30

Peaceful demonstration is allowed in this country. as is abortion.

If you don't like one, or the other, or both there are plenty of places that will clam down on freedom of thought, speech and deed.

Ledkr · 03/04/2014 07:37

They are vile.
We took the children to the local Catholic Church fete last summer and thee was a pro life display complete with aborted foetus pictures and graphic language.
There were loads of children there, attracted by the many children's activities.
My feisty 89 yr old gran spoke to the priest and told him she thought it was inappropriate.
He didn't back down but I'll always remember my. Nan for doing that.

Ledkr · 03/04/2014 07:41

Sorry but the ones outside our local clinic (which also serves as the outpatients dept for pretty much everything) they all look slightly insane to me. A very odd selection of people in strange clothing with home made banners which look as if they were made by children.
Not very credible.

JapaneseMargaret · 03/04/2014 08:17

There was a thread pretty much identical to this just a couple of weeks ago that ran, and ran, and ran.

YANBU.

sashh · 03/04/2014 08:20

For Catholics life is sacred and they view the fetus as a life. And as a life more important than the human being carrying it. Evwn a potential foetus needs to be 'saved' which is why they consider the use of the pill and the coil murder.

Menolly

How offensive do you want to be? It could be argued (in a very skewed way) that they are protesting because the number of children available for abuse is dwindling. You could ask them why they have never protested about priests raping children.

SuburbanRhonda · 03/04/2014 08:24

"Of course they are judging. They think it is wrong to abort a fetus. Do you think Christans were some weird breed of human that does not judge moral actions?"

If my memory serves me correctly doesn't the bible say: "Judge not, lest ye be judged."?

So what branch of organised religion do you belong to that is allowed to ignore that very clear instruction, pony?

SilverDragonfly1 · 03/04/2014 08:29

I was brought up Catholic, but have disassociated (good word) myself from the church since the truth about child abuse came out and Pope Benedict didn't do the only acceptable thing- ensuring all priests involved were reported to the police and prosecuted.

Anyway, just deleted a rant, but how about some placards referencing casting the first stone, motes and beams and judging not?

MadAsFish · 03/04/2014 08:33

they are doing it for the sake of developing human beings, some of whom will be close to 24 weeks gestation

No. They won't.
Late stage terminations are extremely rare.
From the 2012 Abortion statistics
"91% of abortions were carried out at under 13 weeks gestation, 77% were at under 10 weeks compared to 78% in 2011 and 57% in 2002."
"2.19 Abortions where gestation has exceeded its twenty-fourth week account for less than 0.1% of the total. There were 160 such abortions in 2012"

confuddledDOTcom · 03/04/2014 08:34

As a Christian I believe that judging is wrong. It's not my place.

FGM isn't a moral issue, try again.

Shall I take up a protest that people are allowed to be Muslim? Protest outside their mosques?

Laurie, I agree with you, it doesn't sit at all right with me the religion (I hate the word religion but I won't use faith with these people) of these people.

thebody · 03/04/2014 08:38

SGB agree totally.

they arnt caring people they are vile.

Dawndonnaagain · 03/04/2014 08:45

Peaceful demonstration is allowed in this country. as is abortion.

If you don't like one, or the other, or both there are plenty of places that will clam down on freedom of thought, speech and deed.

There is a world of difference between peaceful demonstration and bullying vulnerable women. It is entirely possible one of those women is a teen rape victim, but hey, legal rights supercede her emotional ones?

BackOnlyBriefly · 03/04/2014 08:45

When I read something like this I wonder how it would be received if we held protests outside the local church on Sunday. If we told those arriving for the services about the actual crimes the church has committed, condoned and assisted.

BackOnlyBriefly · 03/04/2014 08:47

This isn't about the rights of 'developing human beings' but about the rights of god to control people.

twofingerstoGideon · 03/04/2014 08:48

Surely the best place to protest then would be outside parliament? Shouldn't they be lobbying MPs not people entering a clinic?

They have no interest in doing this, or in supporting the children of any woman who might 'change her mind' because of their intimidation, on in considering the very many reasons why women might want or need a termination, or anything that doesn't involve 'judging'. They are misogynists who think women are incubators.

They don't care that abortion has existed for millennia or that in places where it is unlawful women will take matters into their own hands, often resulting in their death or serious long-term injury.

twofingerstoGideon · 03/04/2014 08:56

I predict the usual things will happen on this thread. A particular poster will turn up to argue the toss at length about when she believes life begins (at implantation apparently) and try to wear down anyone who disagrees with her stance. Most people will disagree with her view (thank goodness), which is that 'the majority of people' want to see the abortion limit lowered or for abortion to be banned outright. This poster will deny that they see the fetus' life as more important than the 'host' (they might even use that word) but the implicit message in their posts will be exactly that.

The thread will become very, very long but the majority of people will say they believe in a woman's right to choose, which is very heartening.

Swipe left for the next trending thread