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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

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To think holding a vigil outside Marie Stopes is wrong? and to wish there was something I could do (may be upsetting)

999 replies

Menolly · 03/04/2014 00:08

The local Catholic church is planning another vigil next week outside Marie Stopes, I am Catholic although attend a different parish (because I disagree with this ones overly judgmental congregation and uncaring priest). I think it is a horrible thing to be doing, I can see the clinic from my flat and at the last one they blocked the pavement meaning that people had to ask them to move to get through, whether they were going to the clinic or up the road (which leads to the high street, train stations, bus stops etc.).

They do move out the way when asked and they are peaceful whilst there, just singing and praying the rosary, however if I was a teenage girl going in for advice or was in some terrible situation where I needed their services I'm not sure I'd be brave enough to push my way through. Ignoring the fact that the clinic also does STD testing, contraceptive advice, smear tests etc, an abortion isn't an easy thing to go through whatever the circumstances and I think adding to that stress is a terrible thing to do, then considering that these people don't know that the woman they are upsetting aren't going there because they've been raped or because of some other horrible circumstance it makes me really angry.

My eldest child was conceived through rape when I was just 15, I kept him and he's beautiful and I have never regretted that decision but I had a lot of family support that other women might not have and there was a time when I did look at my options and having a bunch of judgmental people singing outside whilst I was trying to get advice would have made things much harder for me at a time when I seriously considered suicide, I hated myself for letting that happen to me and felt guilty for all the stress it put on my parents, I felt I was being judged constantly and lost my own faith for a long time because I couldn't stand the thought that God would let that happen or the guilt and judging associated with church and I hate the idea that people would do something so insensitive and could push someone to making the wrong decision or feeling even worse.

I find the vigils upsetting and I could hear them singing from my living room last time, what I went through was nearly 10 years ago now, I can't imagine how much worse it would be for someone who had been through something more recently or had less support.

I just wish there was something I could do to make these people, who I am sure think they are doing a good thing, see how harmful their vigil could be, but so far I can't think of any way of doing that...

So AIBU to think they shouldn't being doing this? Also if anyone can think of a peaceful way of showing my disgust I'd be grateful.

OP posts:
Dawndonnaagain · 08/04/2014 15:06

Sorry, just rephrased it, not one has been asked to.

AmyMumsnet · 08/04/2014 15:08

Hi everyone,

Thanks for your reports. As people are sharing some highly sensitive details here we'd appreciate it if others could post in a way which reflects and respects that.

We've sent a few mails off-board about this but we just wanted to reiterate it here as well.

Dawndonnaagain · 08/04/2014 15:09

Thank you Amy

thebody · 08/04/2014 15:17

I have had pms from one poster very upset by some comments to her and about this subject.

It's very raw and real for some and it's about their rights to choose over their bodies and not having anyone rise judging them.

Your body your right.

Is that so hard to grant others even if you wouldn't agree and act differently yourself.

Why the need to control other women's bodies.

Just don't get it.

PlumProf · 08/04/2014 15:47

BUMBLEY
"Oh dear Plum. The blastocyst can go on to develop into a foetus by itself in the right environment. Sorry, science is on my side on this one."

I will nominate you for a nobel prize if you can find an environment in which a blastocyte can develop into a baby "by itself" ie not inside a woman. Women are people, you know.

YoniMatopoeia · 08/04/2014 15:51

I am At work so apologies if there is a delay in my responses. I am also on my phone, so messages may be a bit short.

It is precisely because I can't give you a cut off, that there is no reasonable cit off, that I support a woman's right to constant and unending right to make decisions about her body and uterus, maybe I should say as long as she has capacity.

thebody · 08/04/2014 15:55

yoni spot on.

plumprof are but are women not people when they are pregnant.

You know how dizzy and unstable our tiny brains get with a baby inside us.

PlumProf · 08/04/2014 16:00

thebody Grin

SabrinaMulhollandJjones · 08/04/2014 16:02

Thank you AmyMN. I believe some of the posts on this thread have caused great upset to women at a vulnerable time in their lives.

SabrinaMulhollandJjones · 08/04/2014 16:05

As of course, do these vigils outside Marie Stopes. I don't understand how anyone can condone them.

thebody · 08/04/2014 16:09

sabrina agree but at least we have an insight into how such people's minds work if this thread is snything to go by.

Depressing though. Shows also how important it is to keep the guard up about women's rights unless we want to go down the American route.

SabrinaMulhollandJjones · 08/04/2014 16:16

Yes - how was it Nadine Dorrie's mate/advisor put it? 'We'll chip, chip chip away at abortion rights with a view to getting a complete ban on abortion in the UK.'

They're frighteningly close to that in Texas already.

bumbleymummy · 08/04/2014 16:22

the body "so after 24 weeks pregnant a woman simply looses the rights over her body. She looses the right to be a free thinking adult human being. She is an incubated and her wishes are subservient to her baby and to any other random her, like you and bum?

She can be forced against her will to carry a baby and give birth."

That is the current law, yes.

No Sabrina, that wasn't my last post to her so you did miss it.

Chewbacca, I strongly agree with all the things you have posted re. late term abortions. I think it's ridiculous that the best the pro-people can come up with is "oh, but no one would actually do it." Yeah, like no woman would actually kill her baby/child so I guess we should remove the laws that protect them too?

"I have never ever in all my years as a nurse, and I worked on the district ever ever had a heavily pregnant woman request an abortion for frivolous reasons ever."

Maybe because it would be illegal for her to have one?

thebody · 08/04/2014 16:26

Oh dear bum it's not illegal for a heavily pregnant woman to say anything she wishes, just yet!

Would you like to bring that in as a law too?

SabrinaMulhollandJjones · 08/04/2014 16:26

No BM - her posts to you are the ones I'm pointing out. They show you've upset her, and no doubt others.

bumbleymummy · 08/04/2014 16:31

67% of GPs think the abortion limit should be reduced from 24 weeks according to the survey from Marie Stopes that I linked to earlier.

I would also like to clarify again that I do not think the MAP is abortion. Just in case anyone is thinking that I am judging people who have taken it for whatever reason. I have actually been told that I am pro-choice because I believe that. (Something I'm sure none of the rest of you would agree with) Some of you need to stop throwing the false accusations around and jumping to conclusions.

Plum, I already said that 'the right environment' was the woman's uterus. You said that yourself earlier as well. Sorry, but there's no way you can argue that a sperm is the same as a zygote. Your argument doesn't make sense.

bumbleymummy · 08/04/2014 16:33

Yes Sabirna, and I'm pointing out that I posted other things to her as well. You're being very selective about what you post (cutting out any part where I show sympathy for example) and you obviously haven't read my last post to her.

SabrinaMulhollandJjones · 08/04/2014 16:37

You posted some empty "I'm so sorry" and flowers - which is meaningless when your posts have relentlessly caused such upset -personally- to someone going through something so traumatic.

In her own words: "Bumbley - I don't want your pity or your damn flowers."

YoniMatopoeia · 08/04/2014 16:38

"Oh dear Plum. The blastocyst can go on to develop into a foetus by itself in the right environment. Sorry, science is on my side on this one."

That is not on its own. It is a Person, not an environment.

Now if you can develop a non person environment your statement would be true.

Otherwise it is NOT 'on its own'

Dawndonnaagain · 08/04/2014 16:38

That is a figure done in 2007 Bumbley In that seven years it's quite possible the figure has changed again. I'd go and hunt but you'd dismiss it anyway.

bumbleymummy · 08/04/2014 16:38

Plum - your point from earlier "A sperm requires an egg and a womb, both from another person. A fertilised egg requires a womb, from another person."

See, you've pointed out that the sperm needs two things - an egg and a womb. The fertilised egg just needs one - the womb. The fertilised egg can go on to develop into a foetus once inside the womb, the sperm can not. Therefore - not the same.

Dawndonnaagain · 08/04/2014 16:39

Sorry

Dawndonnaagain · 08/04/2014 16:39

not

Dawndonnaagain · 08/04/2014 16:40

letting anyone else have the last word.

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