to expect dp to be surgically sterilized rather than me?

[ikeaismylocal]

Dp and I both have fertility issues, it took years and nearly IVF to conceive ds, we never thought we'd have to worry about contraception as it seemed impossible to get pregnant. As it turns out it was much easier to get pregnant with dc2, I'm currently pregnant despite not tracking ovulation and breastfeeding ds1.

We are starting to think about the future and the need for contraception, I'd love 4 children but dp only wants 2. I have a family history of blood clotting disorders and I have been advised not to take hormonal contraceptives.

We could use condoms although they make me a bit sore, we could use the rhythm method but that may not work.

The logical solution would be for one of us to be surgically sterilized. I feel that as I have had the physical strain of pregnancy, birth, post birth recovery and breastfeeding that dp should be the one to have an operation. I also feel that as I have a small dream of having more children I don't want to burn those fertility bridges so to speak.

Dp feels it would be wrong for him to have a vasectomy despite not wanting anymore children, he feels it would make him feel less of a man.

Aibu to think that if one of us is going to get sterilized it should be him?

www.nhs.uk/Conditions/contraception-guide/Pages/female-sterilisation.aspx

Risks are there. 1 in 200 risk of failure (with an increased chance of ectopic pregnancy if it does fail). 2 in 100 chance of the surgery being performed incorrectly. Then there are the usual risks of abdominal/pelvic surgery - pain, bleeding, damage to organs, infection, etc. And the risks associated with a general or spinal anaesthetic (depending on which the hospital uses) such as allergic reaction, nerve damage, etc.

2%? So rather less risky than male vasectomy where there is a 10% for the serious complications?

Different risks Auntie. Complications for women can be more serious than for men. The 2% is only the risk of one sort of surgery being performed incorrectly, that same surgey has an 80% risk of pain after for women.

Women have died while being sterilized. They have died from the increased risk of ectopic pregnancy and from internal infections from the surgery. These risks are not there for vasectomy.

Also, while the Fuzz's experience is awful, it is not the normal situation for men who suffer pain after vasectomies. In most cases it can be corrected.

I'm not saying this is a reason for vasectomies to be the go to contraception. I'm saying the risks for men are not higher than the risks women frequently take on for contraceptive reasons.

My GP did say that, even though he advises against sterilisation in the majority of cases, in cases where he does make a referral he recommends the man has a vasectomy rather than the woman have her tubes tied as a vasectomy carries less risk both short term and long term.

The 10% figure refers to those where the pain/complication persists, and there is no treatment for it. Not those who are uncomfy for a few weeks. TheFuzz is in the unlucky 1% with the very serious complications, but that does not invalidate the remaining 9% with the other enduring ones.

The idea that vasectomy is simple and low risk is badly misplaced. And it seemsfrom NHS's own published information that it is trouble free for more women than men.

You need to talk to urologists, not GPs, about vasectomy risks.

There is of course a risk of complication from any surgery.

Fuzz's experience has been awful, but it is by no means unique. During DH's experience, (three lengthy stays in hospital, an abscess, loss of a testicle etc, etc), I was so shocked, I spoke to everyone I knew about it. It was only then that I learnt that post surgery at least three friends of friends suffered regular testicular pain - to various degrees - and another had almost died after his procedure (not sure on the details of that unfortunately)

As Fuzz also says, no one at the hospital was in the least fazed by DHs problems. They had seen it all before, many times.

There is treatment for long term pain, normally further surgery. In some cases it isn't successful (as with the Fuzz). It is not the case that 1 in 10 men who have undergone a vasectomy are walking around in long term pain.

The treatment for long term pain is very often not successful. Plus Most people with botched vasectomies do not want extra surgery either.

The gp did not mention any complications at all. The focus of discussion was whether dh might change his mind and want more children one day.

The consultants said between 10-15 percent have complications.

Yes, I agree, of the 10%, some do undergo further surgery and find their symptoms abated.

The risks of sterilisation in women are greater. It is a much more major operation

Surely that is beside the point because no-one has suggested the OP get sterilised. And I think comments like this minimise and belittle the risks involved.

Just because one has greater risks than the other doesn't mean the person who's procedure is statistically 'less risky' has to have it.

I'm not suggesting there aren't significant problems with vasectomies. I'm pointing out that it sin't a unique situation with contraception. Almost all have risks and they are normally borne by women.

I think it's reasonable for women to put some pressure on men to have vasectomies because at the moment almost all the pressure for contraception is on women, both cultural and physical. I don't think it's unreasonable for there to be some balance to that so that there is a more even playing field on which to start the discussion about family planning for a couple. A bit more pressure in that direction would hopefully bring about a greater range of options for male contraception.

That doesn't mean I think it's a done deal, but I don't think the fact that some men have complications, and for some men they are serious or long term is any different than the situation for women, and when women have been taking that risk for years I don't think it's unreasonable for them to say "your turn".

I think it's unreasonable to pressure anyone into surgery. Especially when it carries a not much talked about 10-15% risk of complications.

NB I used to think the same as you...

See, my DH has offered to get a vasectomy and its something we discussed. We don't want any more children but I'm wary because a, there are risks and I don't want him taking them and b, while I don't want more children I don't want to not be able to. I know that sounds silly and I know it's a hangover from our many years of TTC/fertility problems/miscarriages. The thought of physically not being able to conceive - even by choice - puts me right back in that time. I don't want more children but I don't want the choice removed. I know DH's reasoning behind wanting it done though and be knows I'd support his decision.

However since speaking to my GP and reading this thread I've been actively encouraging DH not to have it done. I'd rather go on the pill than put him through surgery and the potentially serious side effects. 10-15% chance of complications is, to me, a significant risk.

If temporary contraception is required for male dogs either an injection or an implant of deslorein can be used.

and woman are still expected to tolerate what can be horrendous side effects of hormonal contraception

Did you read TheFuzz's posts? Because it doesn't sound that simple to decrease a male's fertility.

Again, I don't think it has anything to do with it being up to the woman, it's just that it is easier to control our fertility than it is for a man, unless you use condoms, which the op said made her sore.

I would think, that in all these years, with all the break throughs in medicine, that a male pill/contraception would have been invented if it were THAT easy!!

They are not 'expected' to do anything at all. They have a choice.

It is a much more major operation. having been sterilized & knowing men who had vasectomies, I think this is a myth, a very convenient myth.

I had 2 small cuts. key hole. I don't think that men are done via key hole.

What gave me problems was that they took away several years worth of scar tissue at the same time, from my section site, so I was sore because of that. Other than 2 cuts in my tummy, I didn't feel any ill effects of the key hole surgery I had.

Complications for women can be more serious than for men

I don't class being in pain having an erection not serious. I am not a man, but I guess that it can be hard to control an erection at times.

Just because one has greater risks than the other doesn't mean the person who's procedure is statistically 'less risky' has to have it. Absolutely.

Oh & women might die during the op, not because of the op itself, but because of the general anaesthetic if they opt to go that way.

I think it's reasonable for women to put some pressure on men to have vasectomies No one should be pressurised into surgery at all.

There are these things called condoms. Yes, they are not always failsafe, but no contraception is. Women can insist that men use them, instead of using the pill. BUT people, inc women, don't want to. They want to be free from the hassle, they want to 'feel' everything, they want sex like it is in the movies (how many times do we see condoms being used in the movies) so they opt 9as in decide) for the hormonal method.

In between my termination & my sterilization, we rarely had PIV sex. In fact for at least 2 years we didn't at all as I insisted that I wasn't going to go back on the pill & I couldn't use condoms (see previous post) we did other stuff, just not that. And it was pretty great, we learnt a lot about each other during that time.

Then I went on the pill for a short while, then I was sterilized. So before anyone says it, yes I know what not using hormonal methods means/involves.

It is possible to not use the pill, implant, coil. Yes, it restricts your options, 'kills the romance' etc etc. But no one is forced to use hormonal methods & I really wish that we could all stop speaking as if it were the only choice we have. Because it isn't.

different I don't class being in pain having an erection not serious. I am not a man, but I guess that it can be hard to control an erection at times.

I didn't say long term pain wasn't serious. I said female complications can be more serious. Bad though pain is, it isn't organ damage or death. Both of which, though rare, are complications of female sterilization.

I don't think there is a "no pressure" state when it comes to fertility issues in a couple. People who stay together for reasons of sexual attraction will want to have sex and that in itself is pressure. They can do non-PIV things or use condoms, but as you point out, they don't always want to. There's a lot of social and biological pressure to have children, and then lots of social pressure to not have "too many" children. Generally the pressure falls on far more on the woman, partly because the physical risks of pregnancy can't be shared, partly becasue socially, still, babys are the woman's domain and women are, still, seen as the gatekeepers on sex. So the man can much more easily stick his head in the sand over it - that's the bit of it I see as reasonable to balance.

I totally agree with you that there are other choices. I think it would be great to make that a much bigger part of sex education early on in people's lives so that PIV isn't seen as the only proper sex. That's probably the biggest way to alleviate some of the pressure. But it's not the way most people feel at the moment, so for most women there is pressure to do something to allow PIV without the risk of pregnancy. I think that would change quicker if men were held equally accountable for contraception.

boomboom, i would consider pain on erection as organ damage

Sorry different, that last post is rude and probably wrong. I've asked for it to be deleted.

it's cool, don't worry

OP, toddlers and babies are not good contraception. Nor is the rhythm method if one of you definitely doesn't want more DC. Are you hoping you'll get pregnant again "accidentally"? If so that WBVU. He WBU too for not taking responsibility for contraception.

Your DP should, of course, take his share of responsibility contraception (likely hypo-allergenic condoms / lube might be an ok option). Neither of you wants sterilisation, and as others have said it's your bodies, your choice, so that's not an option.

In debates on here on disagreements between partners on number of DC , especially more than 2 DC, it's almost unanimous that the partner not wanting more children gets to decide. Sad for the person wanting more.

I don't know about your work situation, but since you are not married you would be financially vulnerable if you split up, so if you are currently working and more DC would make that difficult that's something else to consider.

My DH doesn't want more children, but doesn't want a vasectomy. I do want another child. I am also 41 this year, so the coil/ implant will be the same as sterilisation for me, because my last fertile years will be gone in the 2/5 years they last. I think he should have a vasectomy if he is so adamant, but will not force him. He will have to take the consequences of using no contraception.

In the OP's case, I would say don't force a vasectomy because there is still time for him to change his mind, and you don't want to have to try to reverse it if you both end up on the same page.

It is nature of procedure, not just location of gonads which matters for these surgeries. The advances in surgical techniques (eg laparoscopic procedures) have changed female sterilisation significantly, but have not really changed for male (other than incision site).

The risks of female sterilisation are commonly misunderstood to be much higher than they are (no deaths in developed world since 1970s, safer than many procedures); the risks of vasectomy greatly misunderstood and underestimated.

There are behavioural and other reasons why not all male dogs are castrated via removal of the testes Fuzz. Castration can make certain behavioural problems worse, so it may be recommend to try chemical castration first. It always best to really do your reseach and understand all of the implications and the effects of an irreversible surgical procedure- I would have though you of all people would appreciate this.

No-one is saying the answer to effective contraception for male or female is simple, but by expecting women to bear the brunt of it, including having to put up with complications and side effects, much useful technology and techniques being used in veterinary medicine and other medical fields my not be fully utilized. That just seems like a waste.

I think that whoever is the most passionate about not having children should be the one to be sterilised.

In your case neither wants it, so you need to find an alternative.

Unfair to use the pregnancy, birth, breastfeeding argument.

Nobody should be forced into surgery they dont want, MN seem to think women can order men to do what they want yet the other way round and its abuse

The couple sound young and are unmarried so technically just boyfriend and girlfriend and they could very easily split. Perhaps he also wants to keep his options open.

The OP may want more children but knowing her partner doesnt means finding a compromise on contraception. You dont ignore it then go oops against your partners wishes.