To think that using peer humiliation as a punishment for a quiet, sensitive child at the start of Year 7 is very bad practice by the school?

[pippalonglegs]

Oh, I need help and advice please. I'm hurting so much for my DS that I can't think about anything else. Please bear with me - it's a story.

Basically, in a drama class the children were split into boys v girls. The boys started giggling and got themselves into a position in which they became helplessly unable to stop laughing. DS commented to his buddy that it was 'as if they were all on drugs'. Teacher (probably stressed) overheard, took exception to the comment and issued a detention. DS came home seeming so sad and withdrawn and was very upset. He told me about the detention and subsequently I emailed the school (Monday), taking great care not to take sides, simply in order to understand what had happened from teacher's point of view. On Tuesday she called me, and left a voicemail in which she said that DS had 'shouted out a completely inappropriate comment'.

I had no contact telephone number so emailed again (Tues) and explained that even prior to this, DS had been struggling with high school transition and was feeling sad to the point of really not wanting to go to school, and might perhaps benefit more from an alternative approach. I asked if we might talk about the detention before it went ahead. She didn't reply on the Tuesday, the Wednesday or the Thursday - in other words, she completely ignored/dismissed my concerns - and instead simply sent him home with a detention slip for the Friday. Of course I was furious, not least because my sensible and genuine concerns had been completely ignored, and I felt I'd been treated as a stupid, interfering parent.

But then the full picture emerged. I happened to be speaking to another parent who told me she had been very shocked to hear what had happened to DS, although initially I didn't fully understand what she meant. Her child gave an account (unprompted by me, I should add) that was identical to DS's. She said that nobody had even heard his comment (which in my opinion merely illustrated a mature understanding of the potential impact of drugs anyway) and that it was only the teacher flying off the handle that caused any interest in it. But - and this is the significant bit - it also transpired from this third party account that DS had been made to stand facing the wall until the end of lesson, and was at that point given the detention. And that was the bit that crushed me. DS is the most gentle, kind and sensitive of boys, has never been in trouble before, and there could have been no need to subject him to that kind of humiliation in front of his peers. Detentions and discipline, yes - but peer humiliation, most definitely no!!!

Suddenly it all made sense. No wonder he had come home from school so upset. And the thing that really distressed me was that he had felt so much shame and humiliation that he hadn't even been able to tell me about it. My heart broke for him. Little wonder that he was unwilling to go back into school to face his peers. Personally, I felt that such a punishment merely lacked a cap with a big 'D' on the front - a punishment more suited to 1913 than 2013.

I set about researching the pathogenic effects and the damage of peer humiliation (which has a profound impact on cognitive development and behaviour in children). Armed with the evidence, I emailed the head teacher with a formal grievance (the substantive points of which were 1. the failure of the teacher to engage with me and 2. the humiliation punishment that was used). That was acknowledged by the head, who said he would appoint his deputy (also the head of pastoral care) to investiagte, and would then meet with me to discuss the matter.

The deputy called me yesterday and Oh. My. God!!!! It has been a long, long time since I've spoken to anybody who was so bloody-minded and unintelligent. In spite of promises by the head, he refused to have a meeting with me, although I asked repeatedly if we could sit down to talk about my complaint. Every time I asked, his parrotted reply was that he 'would not normally meet with a parent to discuss a detention'. It didn't matter how many times I repeated that the detention was the least of my concerns, he wouldn't listen. In the end I even said that I felt like Jeremy Paxman and I said I wanted a straight answer to a straight question - but his reply was the same again!!!

In the end, I said I would redial and speak to the head, which I duly did. Of course, in the intervening minutes, the deputy had skidded down the corridor to forewarn the head and the head was, initially at least, every bit as hostile. We spoke for about ten minutes, most of which was decidedly heated, and I have to say, most (though by no means all) of the anger came from him not me! Clearly, he was unused to being challenged by a parent and he didn't like it at all. I felt his attitude was autocratic, verging on imperialistic - and told him so!! He actually told me that DS wasn't made to stand facing the wall, he was made to stand at the edge of the room, looking away from the class group!! Oh dear. Talk about semantics!!! Paradoxically, his refusal to accept that DS had been made to stand facing the wall seems clearly to indicate that he knew how unacceptable that would have been. I said that kind of ducking and diving, that kind of manipulation was fundamentally dishonest and slippery and wouldn't play out at all well in the press.

At about that point, we had a u-turn and he invited me in to see him on Monday for a cup of tea and a biscuit.

Basically, it would help me to know if anybody else has had a similar experience. I have the meeting next Monday and would really like to know what options I have/don't have. DS is really suffering and has lost a lot of confidence and self-esteem since this incident. I think it's something that he will carry around with him for the rest of his life.

I happened to me (Unfairly. It was all Alanda's fault), although I was made to stand in the actual corner. I was gobsmacked, and remember the incident, but suicidal? scarred for life? Um, no. It was a great story of the "And did you know what Miss K made me do!" lines and only ever used against Miss K, never me."

I'm not sure this post is actually real, would a parent create such a commotion over something so trivial ?.

Yes some parents do, and some parents do it for much less than this.

Your job as a parent when your kid gets a detention is to say oh dear, how silly of you, do it, thats the end of it and try not to get in trouble again. Now what would you like for tea?

That's proportionate, supportive of the school, doesn't blow it out of proportion, reassures your kid and helps them learn the key lesson which is how to pick up and get on with things and learn from them.

OK I have been shocked at the tone of responses here so have just discussed this with my own DS (11) who I have down as extremely sensitive and easily put off school too. It transpires they never have to face the wall but they are frequently made to stand outside the classroom, ds included, although he's never bothered to tell me this. This is clearly viewed as a badge of honour at his school and the teacher who dishes out this punishment is viewed by the boys as slightly mad and out of control. That doesn't change the fact that the OP's ds feels singled out, so in her place I would want to know whether this is a common method of punishment, and the extent to which he is generally disrupting classes with giggling. I do remember being utterly terrified when I was once made to stand outside a classroom over 40 years ago (that my father would find out I had brought shame on the family, I know laugh all you will but kids sometimes think like this), so I still stand by my point about the teacher needing judgement about the sensitivity of different children. I would want to make clear that the child's response has not been to shake it off.

' I think it's something that he will carry around with him for the rest of his life.'

I think this must be a joke.

I do think it was rude of the teacher not to engage with you, and a bit silly, did they think you would just go away?

This is what you should focus on OP. The possibility of having an open dialogue with the school where you have respect for each other in the best interests of your DS.

gettingeasiernow

Some time ago, I saw three boys running around hitting other children in the privates, I gave them the same sanction.

One of the children has a mini meltdown and had to be removed from his next class. He wasn't bothered about being caught, he was bothered about his parents finding out and grounding him for the weekend.

There was no way that I could have given him a different sanction to the other boys because that wouldn't have been fair on them.

To not follow the policies of the school would sand a bad message out to the pupils and make the lives of the other members of staff even more difficult than they already are.

I think your reaction to all of this is more likely to cause your ds problems than the actual incident, you are building it up into something its not.

Your ds was misbehaving, he said something he should not have said, the teacher heard and punished him, instead of bleating to the school suggesting he is special and should be treated differently you should be teaching him that if he does not behave correctly he is likely to face punishment

Catmint
"I do think it was rude of the teacher not to engage with you, and a bit silly, did they think you would just go away?"

If the OP spoke to the teacher in a similar way to how she has posted, I'm not surprised that the teacher didn't engage with her.

First thoughts are that this must be a wind up as it is exceptionally rare to meet parents who behave quite as unreasonably as you have done so. If it is not, do everyone involved a huge fv out, remove your son and home school him.

Tsk auto correct huge "favour"

BoneyBJ
In the case you describe, there were three kids doing the same thing. Then obviously they should all be punished alike, and the impact will be far less because it's a shared experience for them. In this case, the boy was singled out when all others were giggling too - it was one misjudged comment that he probably didn't fully understand himself but all children say stupid things they don't understand occasionally. The problem is that he was singled out, humiliated (according to his perception, irrelevant how others would perceive it) and isn't able to brush it off. I would not be comfortable just allowing that to carry on unchecked.

You are not doing your son any favours.You would not be offered tea in my school...an in year transfer request form maybe.

I was expecting a dunce's hat to be involved from the title.

Separating a kid and making him face away from his mates when they have been pissing about is not worthy of a Daily Mail sad face article. It's not about humiliation, it's about time out.

And a kid being upset doesn't make it wrong. I've had Y7s cry at being given a telling off. Then they realise that the tears that work on mummy don't cut it at secondary school and a better tactic is to behave themselves.

gettingeasiernow

I think you have to bear in mind that schools also have to have some consistency in their approach too. Yes, if a child is going through a particularly rough patch (personal/home circumstances, being bullies etc) then you might have to be more understanding for a period of time, but you can't give them an indefinite free pass to a lower level of punishment than you would normally give for misbehaviour because a child is felt to "be sensitive".

If a behaviour is deemed unacceptable, it is unacceptable for everyone (regardless of being "sensitive" or not)- the only exception might be for some children with SEN.

And if x behaviour is usually punished by detention/being made to stand outside the class/face the wall/do lines/removal of privileges or whatever punishment- you shouldn't really expect your DC to be treated differently. Otherwise, other children might feel "singled out" (you can just imagine it "x only got told off, but I got a detention. But we did the same thing. It's not fair" cue subsequent post from angry parent about their child being treated differently). Additionally, I suspect the other children will notice the child being treated differently and will be more likely to be teased for being different/"a favourite" and so on.

As I said, if the parent cannot tolerate the disciplinary methods a school uses, then they should consider moving their DC to a school which does suit. Unless some of the teachers are behaving abusively and the school refuses to acknowledge this and act upon it- clearly, the school then needs reported to the relevant authorities. That is quite clearly not the situation in the OPs case.

I genuinely don't see how asking him to face the wall for giggling at and with others, and then shouting out an inappropriate comment, during a drama lesson (which as another poster has pointed out is as much about learning respectful watching/listening to others as about performing yourself) is "bullying". I can see why some people feel it's a bit heavy handed- but really it's not that big a deal. It's certainly not so catastrophic as "scarring him for life".

The OP has over-reacted, worked herself into a frenzy- and is actively re-inforcing her son's negative perceptions. He may well now see himself as a victim- and if he is "scarred for life", then it will most likely be in no small part down to the OPs over-reaction.

IF this is true you could easily be identified.School staff are often members of mumsnet.If this is brought to the attention of the HT he will not be happy about you posting on an internet forum.Our parents are made aware that posting comments about staff online will be taken very seriously.

Should be "being bullied" not "being bullies"! Oops

It is actually in my school's behaviour policy that students be sent outside the classroom for 5 minutes to 'stop-think-choose' if they are behaving inappropriately.

gettingeasier The reason this child was singled out was that he made the silly comment (not only misbehaving but referring to drug use which all schools are sensitive about so quite reasonably considered inappropriate by the teacher), he was punished for that and not for the giggling. One thing I learned when mine were younger was that children sometimes do stupid things that are out of character, but they have to learn not to, and teachers sometimes react in a way that they or I might not think fair, but then I am not trying to manage 30 children at a time.

As many of us have said, life is not always exactly how we would like it to be so we have to teach our children to cope with that. Teaching them that the world should revolve around them and that we will always fight battles for them is more likely to turn them into little shits (as others have referenced upthread too)

I think that you,OP, are perfectly entitled to voice your concerns re:the detention.
I would too given the circumstances,and would be cross with the lack of provision for you to discuss this with the school face to face.

Personally I would be unprepared to let him accept the detention.No doubt that'd cause all sorts of carry-on,but it would be have been easily averted.

The standing against the wall bit I would be less concerned by but why give a detention also - surely he had been given consequences to his action by making him stand against a wall?

Verysmallsqueak a parent has no right to accept a detention for their child or not. If a child refuses to do a detention, whether sanctioned by the parent or not, the school will be perfectly within their remit to simply escalate to an after school detention, or isolation.