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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

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To think that using peer humiliation as a punishment for a quiet, sensitive child at the start of Year 7 is very bad practice by the school?

461 replies

pippalonglegs · 01/11/2013 13:21

Oh, I need help and advice please. I'm hurting so much for my DS that I can't think about anything else. Please bear with me - it's a story.

Basically, in a drama class the children were split into boys v girls. The boys started giggling and got themselves into a position in which they became helplessly unable to stop laughing. DS commented to his buddy that it was 'as if they were all on drugs'. Teacher (probably stressed) overheard, took exception to the comment and issued a detention. DS came home seeming so sad and withdrawn and was very upset. He told me about the detention and subsequently I emailed the school (Monday), taking great care not to take sides, simply in order to understand what had happened from teacher's point of view. On Tuesday she called me, and left a voicemail in which she said that DS had 'shouted out a completely inappropriate comment'.

I had no contact telephone number so emailed again (Tues) and explained that even prior to this, DS had been struggling with high school transition and was feeling sad to the point of really not wanting to go to school, and might perhaps benefit more from an alternative approach. I asked if we might talk about the detention before it went ahead. She didn't reply on the Tuesday, the Wednesday or the Thursday - in other words, she completely ignored/dismissed my concerns - and instead simply sent him home with a detention slip for the Friday. Of course I was furious, not least because my sensible and genuine concerns had been completely ignored, and I felt I'd been treated as a stupid, interfering parent.

But then the full picture emerged. I happened to be speaking to another parent who told me she had been very shocked to hear what had happened to DS, although initially I didn't fully understand what she meant. Her child gave an account (unprompted by me, I should add) that was identical to DS's. She said that nobody had even heard his comment (which in my opinion merely illustrated a mature understanding of the potential impact of drugs anyway) and that it was only the teacher flying off the handle that caused any interest in it. But - and this is the significant bit - it also transpired from this third party account that DS had been made to stand facing the wall until the end of lesson, and was at that point given the detention. And that was the bit that crushed me. DS is the most gentle, kind and sensitive of boys, has never been in trouble before, and there could have been no need to subject him to that kind of humiliation in front of his peers. Detentions and discipline, yes - but peer humiliation, most definitely no!!!

Suddenly it all made sense. No wonder he had come home from school so upset. And the thing that really distressed me was that he had felt so much shame and humiliation that he hadn't even been able to tell me about it. My heart broke for him. Little wonder that he was unwilling to go back into school to face his peers. Personally, I felt that such a punishment merely lacked a cap with a big 'D' on the front - a punishment more suited to 1913 than 2013.

I set about researching the pathogenic effects and the damage of peer humiliation (which has a profound impact on cognitive development and behaviour in children). Armed with the evidence, I emailed the head teacher with a formal grievance (the substantive points of which were 1. the failure of the teacher to engage with me and 2. the humiliation punishment that was used). That was acknowledged by the head, who said he would appoint his deputy (also the head of pastoral care) to investiagte, and would then meet with me to discuss the matter.

The deputy called me yesterday and Oh. My. God!!!! It has been a long, long time since I've spoken to anybody who was so bloody-minded and unintelligent. In spite of promises by the head, he refused to have a meeting with me, although I asked repeatedly if we could sit down to talk about my complaint. Every time I asked, his parrotted reply was that he 'would not normally meet with a parent to discuss a detention'. It didn't matter how many times I repeated that the detention was the least of my concerns, he wouldn't listen. In the end I even said that I felt like Jeremy Paxman and I said I wanted a straight answer to a straight question - but his reply was the same again!!!

In the end, I said I would redial and speak to the head, which I duly did. Of course, in the intervening minutes, the deputy had skidded down the corridor to forewarn the head and the head was, initially at least, every bit as hostile. We spoke for about ten minutes, most of which was decidedly heated, and I have to say, most (though by no means all) of the anger came from him not me! Clearly, he was unused to being challenged by a parent and he didn't like it at all. I felt his attitude was autocratic, verging on imperialistic - and told him so!! He actually told me that DS wasn't made to stand facing the wall, he was made to stand at the edge of the room, looking away from the class group!! Oh dear. Talk about semantics!!! Paradoxically, his refusal to accept that DS had been made to stand facing the wall seems clearly to indicate that he knew how unacceptable that would have been. I said that kind of ducking and diving, that kind of manipulation was fundamentally dishonest and slippery and wouldn't play out at all well in the press.

At about that point, we had a u-turn and he invited me in to see him on Monday for a cup of tea and a biscuit.

Basically, it would help me to know if anybody else has had a similar experience. I have the meeting next Monday and would really like to know what options I have/don't have. DS is really suffering and has lost a lot of confidence and self-esteem since this incident. I think it's something that he will carry around with him for the rest of his life.

OP posts:
Rosesarebeautiful · 01/11/2013 14:29

I totally agree with above comments.

I also remember a mum in my daughters class going on about how lovely and kind her DD was. At the time I knew her DD was being particularly unkind to one of the kids in the class who has mild special needs. Anyone's view of their own child is biased.

Mistakes happen. He misbehaved, and needs to learn from it. Your job is to help him deal with the punishment and grow up.

I would cancel the meeting if I were you, before you embarrass yourself further.

Dancergirl · 01/11/2013 14:32

OP, I hope you're taking these comments on board. I agree with what other have said.

Best thing you can do now? Phone the school on Monday morning, cancel the meeting and say it's all been sorted out now.

I know it's hard when dc go off to secondary, it's a completely different kettle of fish to primary. But you really have to let them stand on their own two feet.

Perhaps this teacher didn't handle the situation well. But the best thing you can do now is let it go. It won't help your ds at all if you keep dwelling on it.

gettingeasiernow · 01/11/2013 14:33

I do not think you are overreacting. I think it depends very much on the child, his robustness, sensitivity and the degree to which he is a repeat offender. I think it is not unreasonable to expect a teacher to understand the impact this may have on your child specifically and have the judgement to give a punishment that the child can bear. I do not think detentions for all the gigglers would have been inappropriate, but to single out one child on the basis of that comment (which is really no big deal at all) and to mete out that punishment indicates the teacher is way out of their depth. And the interraction you have with the head/deputy kind of indicates the same about them. If it were me, I'd stick to my guns.
That said, I also agree that you need to be very careful how you present this to your ds as he should not view himself as a victim - if he is staying in this school, he needs to learn to roll with it.

claig · 01/11/2013 14:34

Yes, cancel the meeting. Say that you realise it is no big deal and you just overreacted when you first heard about it. That way everything will be fine.

The teacher has to have the authority to discipline as she did and you have to respect the teacher's decisions.

TheOriginalSteamingNit · 01/11/2013 14:35

yeah, over-reacting I think... facing the wall is rather old-fashioned, and I'm not in favour of it, but you need to calm down about a million settings here!

hobnobsaremyfavourite · 01/11/2013 14:37

pissed myself reading the op if this is for real op you sound unhinged

Finola1step · 01/11/2013 14:40

Ah, now I see... A classic case. OP types a very long post asking AIBU. OP recieves an almost resounding YES. OP won't listen and continues to argue point. Cue more YABUs. OP disappears into thin air.

JustAnotherFucker · 01/11/2013 14:40

Wanders in and hands OP a grip.

Are you OK Pippa?

soul2000 · 01/11/2013 14:42

It happened to me when i was 16... A teacher sent me out of the class and told me to face the wall in the corridor.... HA HA HA.. I just kept poking my face in the class making silly faces when she was looking the other way......... Seriously ........

BoneyBackJefferson · 01/11/2013 14:43

gettingeasiernow

He wasn't singled out for giggling, he was sanctioned for shouting inappropriate statements across the classroom.

morethanpotatoprints · 01/11/2013 14:43

OP, schools shouldn't be like this, dc shouldn't be humiliated in this way. unfortunately as you can see this is the norm and children are supposed to grow up being bullied by adults, for some reason.
You have the choice to take him out if you want to, although I have found most secondary schools to be like this, they weren't good for either of my ds and my dd certainly won't be going. Grin
If you don't think you can cope with this sort of treatment and you are able I would consider H.ed, as it is far fairer and you can concentrate on education rather than daily punishment.
Good luck OP YANBU

Floggingmolly · 01/11/2013 14:43

Teachers should have the judgement to give a punishment that the child can bear
Sweet Jesus Hmm

DreamingofSummer · 01/11/2013 14:44

Holy shit! Your attitude and approach will do more harm to your son than any minor punishment. Please get a grip.

By the way, any poster who actually types Oh. My. God. loses credibility instantly.

Echocave · 01/11/2013 14:45

It's not a great way to discipline but I don't think you should make too much of it for your DS' sake. By all means talk to the school but try not to get it out of proportion. I don't think this will scar your son for life.

sunbathe · 01/11/2013 14:47

I asked a friend whether she had her coat, waaaaay back in primary school. The teacher heard that somebody had said something and my friend dobbed me in.

The teacher told me to go and stand facing the wall. I felt humiliated and refused to do it. The teacher carried on with the lesson.

I think a detention for your son, or better still for that group of boys was punishment enough. I can still remember the wave of shame that came over me when she told me to stand facing the wall. And that was a long time ago.

TallulahMcFey · 01/11/2013 14:48

I am with you OP on this one. My daughter is year 7 and it is a bit of a shakey time. Yes, they need to toughen up and already I have said to her that yes teachers are unfair. They are busy and stressed and don't always get things right. I say to try not to take it too seriously. However, I am talking minor issues like not being retold how to do history work when she couldn't hear the first explanation that was directed to the one child (who had asked the question) the other side of the room. I did think it was annoying, as she did, when she got told she should have heard the first time, when she tried but couldn't, but you can't contact the school about everything. I would, however, contact the school if I felt she had unfairly been made to stand up in front of class facing the wall as a punishment (she is quiet and would hate to be the centre of anything) or if I felt a detention had unfairly been given (as to receive a detention would be v out of character for her and I know she would be v upset about it). In short, I think you know your own child so you know how seriously to take things. To some children a detention and being punished in front of class may be nothing.

JammieCodger · 01/11/2013 14:51

Wow. As the mother of a very sensitive child, still, Wow. I thought it was a spoof, too. I like the way you changed your opinion to being supportive of detention in these circumstances ("Detentions and discipline, yes"), when at first you had been "furious" that a detention had been given without the teacher discussing it with you first.

And you really think the headteacher is unused to being challenged? I'm fairly certain he dealt with bigger challenges than you every single working day.

If it's all true, then I would seriously suggest you consider home schooling. You are going to do your son no favours with your attitude to the school's staff and how they discipline the pupils.

Dawndonnaagain · 01/11/2013 14:52

Some children are more sensitive. The OP asked and most of you have said 'over reaction'. I do wonder though, what if the child were pushed too far, would you be saying oh the parent should have done more, when the child had committed suicide? Okay, I know there is currently no parallel but this is where it starts, kids bullying and teachers bullying because they are unable to control a class.
OP. This happened to my son in year three, he is at university now, but still has the odd nightmare about the teacher concerned. We put him in a school more suited to his temperament and he was much happier.

vivatregina · 01/11/2013 14:54

This is ridiculous. Being on the same coach as Malala when she was shot in the head I can see would be carried around with you for the rest of your life. Facing a bloody wall for being super annoying student I think not.

WillSingForCake · 01/11/2013 14:54

I think it's something that he will carry around with him for the rest of his life

If this is truly the case, then you need to work on toughening him up a bit. He's going to encounter worse things during his time at secondary school. Perhaps open his eyes to what some other children in life have to endure, eg actual real suffering?

LightasaBreeze · 01/11/2013 14:55

I can remember standing with my back to the class with my hands on my head as we had to in the old days.

Scarred me for life it did Grin

mumofthemonsters808 · 01/11/2013 14:55

This reply has been deleted

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BoneyBackJefferson · 01/11/2013 14:56

unfortunately as you can see this is the norm and children are supposed to grow up being bullied by adults

Its called rights and responsibilities, your child has a right to education and a responsibility to not spoil it for everyone else.

my ds and my dd certainly won't be going.

thank heaven for small mercies.

Curioushorse · 01/11/2013 14:56

Ha ha ha! Hilarious. OP I'm assuming this is a joke. If not, your poor son! He certainly will be scarred for life....by your reactions!

A few things about how schools work:

  1. The deputy head and head would never normally deal with an incident as trivial as this. They've got far too much to do. What they've been dealing with here is not the detention, but the loony parent's reaction to it. And would he have skidded down the corridor to warn the head? Nah. Would have heaved a sigh of relief at getting you off the phone and would have got on with his real work.
  2. You defended your son's comment in a situation you don't really know anything about? Seriously? Has anybody else picked up on the really worrying phrase, 'which in my opinion merely illustrated a mature understanding of the potential impact of drugs anyway'. Wow OP, just wow! Don't really know where to start with that.
  3. It was a drama lesson. One of the main goals of the first term in drama is to get kids used to the concept of performing AND TO GET OTHER KIDS USED TO THE CONCEPT OF RESPECTFULLY WATCHING THEM. Your son definitely failed to do this, and thus deserved punishment. Drama lessons fall down completely if children think that they can make negative comments about the performances of others. Which your son did.
  4. Drama lessons are physical. Your son needed a punishment where his mockery of the girls would not prevent them from performing further. Facing away from them would do this. Yeah, it's not great, but I don't think it would scar him for life.
  5. So I've got an MEd. Which pieces of research are your referring to?
  6. It was the last week of a busy half term, in which the teacher was probably already on her knees and trying to get all of the assessments done. She was probably focussing on these rather than replying to you.

I await your email to go viral on the TES message boards.

thebody · 01/11/2013 14:56

I actually though your post was a joke.

your son was being a pain in the arse. he's year 7 so about 11 right?

he got a detention and had to face the wall. so what!! serve him right.

as for the scarred for life comments!! sweet Jesus if this is the worst thing that happens to him in his school life he will he a very lucky boy.

the school will he laughing at you op. please cancel the meeting and teach your son that actions have conveniences, he will meet tough things in life and you both need to toughen up and move on.

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