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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

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To think that using peer humiliation as a punishment for a quiet, sensitive child at the start of Year 7 is very bad practice by the school?

461 replies

pippalonglegs · 01/11/2013 13:21

Oh, I need help and advice please. I'm hurting so much for my DS that I can't think about anything else. Please bear with me - it's a story.

Basically, in a drama class the children were split into boys v girls. The boys started giggling and got themselves into a position in which they became helplessly unable to stop laughing. DS commented to his buddy that it was 'as if they were all on drugs'. Teacher (probably stressed) overheard, took exception to the comment and issued a detention. DS came home seeming so sad and withdrawn and was very upset. He told me about the detention and subsequently I emailed the school (Monday), taking great care not to take sides, simply in order to understand what had happened from teacher's point of view. On Tuesday she called me, and left a voicemail in which she said that DS had 'shouted out a completely inappropriate comment'.

I had no contact telephone number so emailed again (Tues) and explained that even prior to this, DS had been struggling with high school transition and was feeling sad to the point of really not wanting to go to school, and might perhaps benefit more from an alternative approach. I asked if we might talk about the detention before it went ahead. She didn't reply on the Tuesday, the Wednesday or the Thursday - in other words, she completely ignored/dismissed my concerns - and instead simply sent him home with a detention slip for the Friday. Of course I was furious, not least because my sensible and genuine concerns had been completely ignored, and I felt I'd been treated as a stupid, interfering parent.

But then the full picture emerged. I happened to be speaking to another parent who told me she had been very shocked to hear what had happened to DS, although initially I didn't fully understand what she meant. Her child gave an account (unprompted by me, I should add) that was identical to DS's. She said that nobody had even heard his comment (which in my opinion merely illustrated a mature understanding of the potential impact of drugs anyway) and that it was only the teacher flying off the handle that caused any interest in it. But - and this is the significant bit - it also transpired from this third party account that DS had been made to stand facing the wall until the end of lesson, and was at that point given the detention. And that was the bit that crushed me. DS is the most gentle, kind and sensitive of boys, has never been in trouble before, and there could have been no need to subject him to that kind of humiliation in front of his peers. Detentions and discipline, yes - but peer humiliation, most definitely no!!!

Suddenly it all made sense. No wonder he had come home from school so upset. And the thing that really distressed me was that he had felt so much shame and humiliation that he hadn't even been able to tell me about it. My heart broke for him. Little wonder that he was unwilling to go back into school to face his peers. Personally, I felt that such a punishment merely lacked a cap with a big 'D' on the front - a punishment more suited to 1913 than 2013.

I set about researching the pathogenic effects and the damage of peer humiliation (which has a profound impact on cognitive development and behaviour in children). Armed with the evidence, I emailed the head teacher with a formal grievance (the substantive points of which were 1. the failure of the teacher to engage with me and 2. the humiliation punishment that was used). That was acknowledged by the head, who said he would appoint his deputy (also the head of pastoral care) to investiagte, and would then meet with me to discuss the matter.

The deputy called me yesterday and Oh. My. God!!!! It has been a long, long time since I've spoken to anybody who was so bloody-minded and unintelligent. In spite of promises by the head, he refused to have a meeting with me, although I asked repeatedly if we could sit down to talk about my complaint. Every time I asked, his parrotted reply was that he 'would not normally meet with a parent to discuss a detention'. It didn't matter how many times I repeated that the detention was the least of my concerns, he wouldn't listen. In the end I even said that I felt like Jeremy Paxman and I said I wanted a straight answer to a straight question - but his reply was the same again!!!

In the end, I said I would redial and speak to the head, which I duly did. Of course, in the intervening minutes, the deputy had skidded down the corridor to forewarn the head and the head was, initially at least, every bit as hostile. We spoke for about ten minutes, most of which was decidedly heated, and I have to say, most (though by no means all) of the anger came from him not me! Clearly, he was unused to being challenged by a parent and he didn't like it at all. I felt his attitude was autocratic, verging on imperialistic - and told him so!! He actually told me that DS wasn't made to stand facing the wall, he was made to stand at the edge of the room, looking away from the class group!! Oh dear. Talk about semantics!!! Paradoxically, his refusal to accept that DS had been made to stand facing the wall seems clearly to indicate that he knew how unacceptable that would have been. I said that kind of ducking and diving, that kind of manipulation was fundamentally dishonest and slippery and wouldn't play out at all well in the press.

At about that point, we had a u-turn and he invited me in to see him on Monday for a cup of tea and a biscuit.

Basically, it would help me to know if anybody else has had a similar experience. I have the meeting next Monday and would really like to know what options I have/don't have. DS is really suffering and has lost a lot of confidence and self-esteem since this incident. I think it's something that he will carry around with him for the rest of his life.

OP posts:
turningvioletviolet · 01/11/2013 13:55

Wow. Just wow. My children would be mortified if I did anything like that. And if you don't like the repsonses on AIBU and think if people who disagree with you aren't 'decent', then i respectfully advise you not to post here.

mnistooaddictive · 01/11/2013 13:57

If you keep making excuses for your son, he will believe this kind of behaviour is acceptable. He was caught making a stupid comment and received an appropriate punishment. If the deputy head spent 39 minutes discussing every detention he would have no time to do anything else. Your don may be quiet and sensitive but he behaved in appropriately. If the teacher let this go, then it sends a message to the whole class that poor behaviour is acceptable. Deal with your son now before this type of behaviour becomes routine.

lisad123everybodydancenow · 01/11/2013 13:59

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

PumpkinPositive · 01/11/2013 14:01

I set about researching the pathogenic effects and the damage of peer humiliation (which has a profound impact on cognitive development and behaviour in children

Grin Grin

As someone who well remembers standing with my face to the wall for hours after the teacher completely forgot she'd put me there I never thought she'd done it to humiliate me in front of my peers. I just thought it was because she couldn't bear to look at me a minute longer. Smile

Strumpetron · 01/11/2013 14:02

I've just re-read this and the narrative is amazing Grin

It's like a personal journey

I would expect a montage scene, right when the OP set about her research. rocky music

TheListingAttic · 01/11/2013 14:04

Is this a spoof?

*I set about researching the pathogenic effects....

Jesus wept.

TheListingAttic · 01/11/2013 14:05

Bold effect fail

ForFawkesSakeNoGuyForSolo · 01/11/2013 14:05

I think this kind of thing is very common. It happens to my Ds (yr 11) and some of his classmates often and has been happening since year 7. There have been even worse humiliations too and it's a grammar school and supposed to be the best.

I don't think you are being unreasonable at all.

Spikeytree · 01/11/2013 14:05

If this isn't a wind up, please home educate your son, OP. no teacher should have to put up with you.

Renniehorta · 01/11/2013 14:06

If nothing else OP you will have raised a few laughs in the staffroom. Always welcome on a Friday when energy levels are low.

All you will achieve with your DS is, confirming that he can get away with bad behaviour as far as you are concerned. Back the school up and tell him to behave himself in class.

MrsTerryPratchett · 01/11/2013 14:06

Mitzy it's never too late Smile

DollyTwat · 01/11/2013 14:09

Op hard as it is, your reaction is going to follow him around way more than what's happened. Honestly, he's never going to tell you anything ever again

I think you do need to back the teachers in front if him, and perhaps ask them what happened if you are very concerned. My ds1 would disown me if I'd reacted thus way, even if he thought it was unfair on him

If this had been my ds btw, I would have said 'we're you being silly?' Him 'yes'. Me ' well you know what happens now don't you'
Job done

NotYoMomma · 01/11/2013 14:10

strumpleton oh don't! I actually pissed myself laughing at that! oh the montage scene!

what music would it be? chariots of fire with the fist pumping as OP finds her research ok Wikipedia?

fluffyraggies · 01/11/2013 14:12

Completely OTT reaction OP, sorry.

I think that you need to think about how you are reacting to the answers on this thread too. The vast majority are saying you have over reacted, but you are saying the others aren't 'decent people'. Let this let you something.

You wont be doing your son any favors by hounding the school over this insignificant incident. YOU are building it up into something damaging.

One of my dearest friends, who is a lovely woman, is forever up at the school howling about how her youngest DD (13) is being 'victimised' by the teachers. The last incident was the DDs mobile being taken from her by the teacher because she was texting her mates while in a maths class.

DDs response to the teacher?
Not ''sorry - can i have it back please'',
Not quiet acceptance of being caught red handed - no, it was

''You'll regret this, when my mum finds out about this she'll be up here to have a go at you!!''

Ugghh.

And ... sure enough, next day my friend was up at the school raving about how DD should not have had the phone taken from her Hmm

I am embarrassed for her - they must cringe when she stomps across the playground.

lunar1 · 01/11/2013 14:12

For some reason the bay watch theme tune is stuck in my head at the thought of the deputy head skidding down the corridor.

Being serious for a minute though, I was the quiet shy child at school, it actually did my street cred lots of good when I had to face the wall (for something I didn't do).

I think you are at risk of spontaneous human combustion by before your son finished school if you are researching and threatening with the press after less than half a term in secondary school.

Worried3 · 01/11/2013 14:14

I agree with those who have said this is a massive over-reaction on your part. I can see you have got yourself worked up, which makes me wonder if there isn't something more complex going on with your son?

However, this kind of reaction from you is only likely to make him more upset and sensitive in the future- you've just confirmed that he has gone through a terrible ordeal that is going to "scar him for life" and that he should feel humiliated. How is he ever going to grow in confidence if you magnify every little knock he gets? I don't doubt most children would be embarrassed at being told off- I was when I was at school. That's partly the point. I agree it does seem a bit heavy handed, if the situation is genuinely as you describe, but I wouldn't say catastrophic.

And as for threatening to go the press if the school didn't do what you want- that is ridiculous and likely to be counterproductive in the longer term. I have to deal with families like this in my job, and when they make threats to get their way it nearly always tells me we need to be extra careful and do things exactly by the book- it seldom helps to form a mutually beneficial relationship and leaves little room for compromise.

If your DS is really so easily upset, and his esteem and confidence genuinely so easily knocked by one relatively minor incident, then I recommend that you seek some help for him and advice for yourself regarding how you might go about making him more resilient- life is not easy for most of us, and all children need to have the tools to deal with adversity. If this really is a problem for your DS, then by all means discuss your DS additional needs regarding support and guidance.

That said, if you really cannot come to terms with the sort of disciplinary model of your DS's current school and/or have lost all confidence in the school, then I suggest you move him to a school you are happier with- it might be beneficial all round.

MrsDavidBowie · 01/11/2013 14:14

Op must be busy cracking on with her research.

kali110 · 01/11/2013 14:15

Yabu. A complete overreaction.
Im not surprised the teachers didn't want to meet with you. Your son misbehaved, he got a detention and you don't like it so you're complaining. Sounds like you were undermining them.
I would have been horrified if my parents had done this.

PumpkinPositive · 01/11/2013 14:16

Who'd be a teacher, eh?

uselessinformation · 01/11/2013 14:16

Being made to face the wall was a step too far, but separation from the group wasn't. All you needed to do was tell your son that the teacher went a bit too far but that it is a lesson for life in that people don't all react to things in the same way. You have made it into a bigger deal for your son than it should have been.

Strumpetron · 01/11/2013 14:19

^strumpleton oh don't! I actually pissed myself laughing at that! oh the montage scene!

what music would it be? chariots of fire with the fist pumping as OP finds her research ok Wikipedia?^

Oh dear god ha

DollyTwat · 01/11/2013 14:20

Op would you have thought this was a heavy hands approach if one of the more 'troublesome' kids had had this punishment?

ilove · 01/11/2013 14:24

Dreading going back into school next week...

Trying to deal with/control/teach/discipline 30 over excited, grumpy, hyper, whatever kids is hard enough without mothers' like you thrown into the mix.

I'm a roaming cover supervisor so I teach all over Yorkshire - Often I don't know any of the children I'm teaching, especially Y7's at the moment and I absolutely use discipline on the classes I have - otherwise there's be anarchy! I'd have made him stand at the side too, and given a detention.

What would you have said if he'd been the one in my class one time who refused to stop tilting and slamming his chair despite warnings? He ended up doing his work standing for the remaining 35 minutes - I removed his chair for his own safety and the chance for the rest of the class to work. Would THAT have been humiliating him in front of his peers too???

claig · 01/11/2013 14:24

YABU

"Paradoxically, his refusal to accept that DS had been made to stand facing the wall seems clearly to indicate that he knew how unacceptable that would have been. I said that kind of ducking and diving, that kind of manipulation was fundamentally dishonest and slippery and wouldn't play out at all well in the press."

Grin

Are you trying to humiliate the head?

You are overreacting. Try and see it in perspective. It is not a big deal. Most of us had these type of things happen at school. It doesn't matter, it's no big deal.

timidviper · 01/11/2013 14:26

As I said upthread my DS had some punishments at school that he hated but he learned to cope with just as your son needs to. When he started his first "proper job" after uni, the department he was initially in had a boss who was dreadful to him. How would he have coped if he hadn't learned to deal with the fact that sometimes life isn't fair?
Maybe I should have e-mailed his boss about the pathogenic effects of her management strategies Grin

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