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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

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To think that using peer humiliation as a punishment for a quiet, sensitive child at the start of Year 7 is very bad practice by the school?

461 replies

pippalonglegs · 01/11/2013 13:21

Oh, I need help and advice please. I'm hurting so much for my DS that I can't think about anything else. Please bear with me - it's a story.

Basically, in a drama class the children were split into boys v girls. The boys started giggling and got themselves into a position in which they became helplessly unable to stop laughing. DS commented to his buddy that it was 'as if they were all on drugs'. Teacher (probably stressed) overheard, took exception to the comment and issued a detention. DS came home seeming so sad and withdrawn and was very upset. He told me about the detention and subsequently I emailed the school (Monday), taking great care not to take sides, simply in order to understand what had happened from teacher's point of view. On Tuesday she called me, and left a voicemail in which she said that DS had 'shouted out a completely inappropriate comment'.

I had no contact telephone number so emailed again (Tues) and explained that even prior to this, DS had been struggling with high school transition and was feeling sad to the point of really not wanting to go to school, and might perhaps benefit more from an alternative approach. I asked if we might talk about the detention before it went ahead. She didn't reply on the Tuesday, the Wednesday or the Thursday - in other words, she completely ignored/dismissed my concerns - and instead simply sent him home with a detention slip for the Friday. Of course I was furious, not least because my sensible and genuine concerns had been completely ignored, and I felt I'd been treated as a stupid, interfering parent.

But then the full picture emerged. I happened to be speaking to another parent who told me she had been very shocked to hear what had happened to DS, although initially I didn't fully understand what she meant. Her child gave an account (unprompted by me, I should add) that was identical to DS's. She said that nobody had even heard his comment (which in my opinion merely illustrated a mature understanding of the potential impact of drugs anyway) and that it was only the teacher flying off the handle that caused any interest in it. But - and this is the significant bit - it also transpired from this third party account that DS had been made to stand facing the wall until the end of lesson, and was at that point given the detention. And that was the bit that crushed me. DS is the most gentle, kind and sensitive of boys, has never been in trouble before, and there could have been no need to subject him to that kind of humiliation in front of his peers. Detentions and discipline, yes - but peer humiliation, most definitely no!!!

Suddenly it all made sense. No wonder he had come home from school so upset. And the thing that really distressed me was that he had felt so much shame and humiliation that he hadn't even been able to tell me about it. My heart broke for him. Little wonder that he was unwilling to go back into school to face his peers. Personally, I felt that such a punishment merely lacked a cap with a big 'D' on the front - a punishment more suited to 1913 than 2013.

I set about researching the pathogenic effects and the damage of peer humiliation (which has a profound impact on cognitive development and behaviour in children). Armed with the evidence, I emailed the head teacher with a formal grievance (the substantive points of which were 1. the failure of the teacher to engage with me and 2. the humiliation punishment that was used). That was acknowledged by the head, who said he would appoint his deputy (also the head of pastoral care) to investiagte, and would then meet with me to discuss the matter.

The deputy called me yesterday and Oh. My. God!!!! It has been a long, long time since I've spoken to anybody who was so bloody-minded and unintelligent. In spite of promises by the head, he refused to have a meeting with me, although I asked repeatedly if we could sit down to talk about my complaint. Every time I asked, his parrotted reply was that he 'would not normally meet with a parent to discuss a detention'. It didn't matter how many times I repeated that the detention was the least of my concerns, he wouldn't listen. In the end I even said that I felt like Jeremy Paxman and I said I wanted a straight answer to a straight question - but his reply was the same again!!!

In the end, I said I would redial and speak to the head, which I duly did. Of course, in the intervening minutes, the deputy had skidded down the corridor to forewarn the head and the head was, initially at least, every bit as hostile. We spoke for about ten minutes, most of which was decidedly heated, and I have to say, most (though by no means all) of the anger came from him not me! Clearly, he was unused to being challenged by a parent and he didn't like it at all. I felt his attitude was autocratic, verging on imperialistic - and told him so!! He actually told me that DS wasn't made to stand facing the wall, he was made to stand at the edge of the room, looking away from the class group!! Oh dear. Talk about semantics!!! Paradoxically, his refusal to accept that DS had been made to stand facing the wall seems clearly to indicate that he knew how unacceptable that would have been. I said that kind of ducking and diving, that kind of manipulation was fundamentally dishonest and slippery and wouldn't play out at all well in the press.

At about that point, we had a u-turn and he invited me in to see him on Monday for a cup of tea and a biscuit.

Basically, it would help me to know if anybody else has had a similar experience. I have the meeting next Monday and would really like to know what options I have/don't have. DS is really suffering and has lost a lot of confidence and self-esteem since this incident. I think it's something that he will carry around with him for the rest of his life.

OP posts:
Ownedbymycats · 29/03/2022 09:09

My son was once given an unfair detention, basically he was late for school on 3 occasions in a month and this triggered the detention. The days when he was a few minutes late were days when most other pupils had taken snow days due to the extreme conditions. No buses were running and I had driven him the 32 mile return journey to school. The day that they had issued the detention was in similar weather conditions and I'd have had to collect his siblings at a different school then wait outside in sub zero temperatures before attempting a treacherous journey home. The school had several people phone me and I absolutely declined.
My youngest child also went to this school and his head of year reminded him about the detention many years later. My sister is a school teacher and is clear that the parents are demarcated into those you mess with and those you don't, if you feel a treatment is unjust stand up for yourself.
All the boys who uncontrollably giggled should have been asked to apologize to the teacher but I don't see the benefit in highlighting your son's role.

TheChurchOfEli · 29/03/2022 09:16

@mnhq and here we have another example of why old threads shouldn’t be able to be revived like this. Absolutely ridiculous @Yesiknowyes you can clearly read so why did you think your insightful input was needed 9 years later?

WashedupTroll · 29/03/2022 09:17

But I want to know if the child was psychologically hurt....I mean The Reesssearch

DebenhamsHadSomeLovelyStuff · 29/03/2022 09:20

I think the child has probably left school by now
zombie thread

WirlyWillowtree · 29/03/2022 09:23

It’s unfortunate that things do stick in your mind. I was 11 and in the queue for lunch when I was sent to the back of the queue for basically nothing, too long to explain here, I’m in my fifties now, I was mortified at the time as I was a very quiet child who wouldn’t dare put a foot out of line.
I’ve never told anyone and in my adult years about it, but I do remember it very clearly.

I think it’s important for your child to have reassurance from you and it’s doesn’t blow up into something a lot more than it is that causes him embarrassment at school and ongoing issues especially as it’s his first year. It’s great to know you stick up for your child but I think if I were that child I’d want to discuss and decide with you what if anything should happen.

Crimesean · 29/03/2022 09:32

It sounds like the teacher handled it badly, which is a shame.

I don't understand, though, why the school doubled down and insisted they were in the right when clearly they weren't? I mean, all they'd have to do is apologise, say they got it wrong on this occasion, and job done.

Sewmania · 29/03/2022 09:34

This thread has made me finally stop lurking and create a user name! I fully support you OP, detentions happen, sometimes fairly fairly and sometimes not. I wouldn’t overplay the significance of them. But the peer humiliation is something different. I was humiliated in front of the class by Miss Smith, our PE teacher, when I was about the same age as your son. It’s telling that at 59 years old it is once of the few clear memories I have of my school days, and she is the only teacher I can still picture clearly. I avoided group Exercise until I was in my 40s and have only in the last 10 years started to believe in my ability. Parkrun has been an amazing therapy for me. The incident had a profound impact on me and I am horrified that this sort of thing still happens.

ChazsBrilliantAttitude · 29/03/2022 09:36

@MNHQ

The child is now an adult and this thread should be allowed to RIP

Femalewoman · 29/03/2022 09:36

Wow OP do you always go nuclear. Your son made a totally inappropriate comment suggesting giggling boys are on drugs (does your son never giggle) and had a consequence.

Is your son listening/aware of the fuss you are making.

Femalewoman · 29/03/2022 09:37

@DebenhamsHadSomeLovelyStuff

I think the child has probably left school by now ****zombie thread****
Oh dear
Femalewoman · 29/03/2022 09:38

@WashedupTroll

But I want to know if the child was psychologically hurt....I mean The Reesssearch
Do you think the OP might come back years later to let us know?
AchillesPoirot · 29/03/2022 09:39

@Yesiknowyes

I think you need to answer yourself 2 questions. Did your son behave appropriately? Answer is No. Was it the first time it happened? Or it happens regularly and unfairly to your son? No. I’m saying it like a mother of a very sensitive child. We will have to learn to live in the real world, both us and our sensitive children. We need to teach them to reuse the waves, to accept negative events and consequences, to be emotionally resilient. Because it gets worse and worse later on. It seems like you’ve never learned to be emotionally resilient and I don’t blame you, I’m not either. But we need to change the attitude and help our children to face this kind of events with emotional resilience.
I think you need to take note of the date of the thread.
3peassuit · 29/03/2022 09:39

I must pay more attention to post’s dates. Wasted a good hour on this one.

jacks11 · 29/03/2022 09:40

I think both you and the school are being unreasonable. They got it wrong, you have blown things out of proportion.

Whilst I agree that it wasn’t the best example of class management or discipline, I think you are in danger of over-reacting and compounding any issues.

If you give it arms and legs, believe it will damage your DS for life etc- and quite possibly pass on those fears to your DS (even if you don’t intend to/think you are)- it’s communicating to him that a truly terrible thing happened to him , when the reality is that it hasn’t.

It would be far better to explain to him that you think it was a bad example of discipline by his teacher, try to show him that whilst he was in the wrong/very silly to behave as he did (and no, I don’t think his remark was simply “displaying a mature understanding of the effects of drugs”- do you honestly believe that?), this mode of punishment is not right either. Once he understands that, put it to bed and chalk it up as a bad experience, nothing more. If you make it a HUGE deal, it will become one for him and you run a far greater risk of it actually being damaging than if you keep things in perspective and deal with it sensibly.

jacks11 · 29/03/2022 09:41

Oops- zombie thread!

lifelast · 29/03/2022 09:42

How do these old threads get re-activated!?

Ozanj · 29/03/2022 09:44

If he had made that comment at work he would have been dismissed as a numpty and possibly had his promotion opportunities capped. It’s a useful lesson in how you need to think before you open your mouth. Jokes about drugs are not acceptable in any way shape or form

HabitsDieHard · 29/03/2022 09:50

Zombie thread from 2013 everyone

incognitoforthisone · 29/03/2022 09:50

The teacher made too much of your son's harmless comment. You are making too much of a minor issue which is going to do your son absolutely no long-term damage.

You sound like a nightmare parent.

Excited101 · 29/03/2022 09:53

Punishment from the Victorian times because THAT’S HOW OLD THE THREAD IS

JesusInTheCabbageVan · 29/03/2022 09:56

ZOMBIE

@Yesiknowyes WTF are you playing at? Go and stand in the corner facing the wall.

TyrannosaurusRegina · 29/03/2022 09:57

You've really overreacted. He got a detention, perhaps it wasn't fair but life isn't fair. There's a lesson. I got in trouble a few times at school for things that weren't my fault, the teacher had just got the wrong end of the stick. At that age, I moped about like a moody teenager over the injustice for about 10 minutes, then it was over. You're really prolonging this.

LittleDiaries · 29/03/2022 10:00

Why are so many Zombie threads being resurrected? If you have a similar problem then read that thread but there's no need to comment on it. Start your own. That Yr7 boy is now 20 and probably at university or out to work. Neither he nor his parent would want this brought up again, I'll bet. 🧟‍♂️ 🧟‍♀️ Hmm

DomesticatedZombie · 29/03/2022 10:00

I have been really surprised, after primary school being apparently very enlightened and engaged with developments in pedagogy, how regressive and authoritarian secondary school is.

I used to work in a secondary, so I do understand some of the issues faced with older children and yp, but there seems to be room for some shockingly bad teaching within the setting. As you say, it's so old fashioned and ineffective, if not harmful.

I hope your son is okay, OP. I would probably suggest taking a longer view, getting involved in governance/parent council, etc, if there are deeper issues within the school's policies, and not focus too much on this one incident.

ronjobbins · 29/03/2022 10:03

I would be telling the school in no uncertain terms that my DC would not be attending the detention.

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