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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

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To think that using peer humiliation as a punishment for a quiet, sensitive child at the start of Year 7 is very bad practice by the school?

461 replies

pippalonglegs · 01/11/2013 13:21

Oh, I need help and advice please. I'm hurting so much for my DS that I can't think about anything else. Please bear with me - it's a story.

Basically, in a drama class the children were split into boys v girls. The boys started giggling and got themselves into a position in which they became helplessly unable to stop laughing. DS commented to his buddy that it was 'as if they were all on drugs'. Teacher (probably stressed) overheard, took exception to the comment and issued a detention. DS came home seeming so sad and withdrawn and was very upset. He told me about the detention and subsequently I emailed the school (Monday), taking great care not to take sides, simply in order to understand what had happened from teacher's point of view. On Tuesday she called me, and left a voicemail in which she said that DS had 'shouted out a completely inappropriate comment'.

I had no contact telephone number so emailed again (Tues) and explained that even prior to this, DS had been struggling with high school transition and was feeling sad to the point of really not wanting to go to school, and might perhaps benefit more from an alternative approach. I asked if we might talk about the detention before it went ahead. She didn't reply on the Tuesday, the Wednesday or the Thursday - in other words, she completely ignored/dismissed my concerns - and instead simply sent him home with a detention slip for the Friday. Of course I was furious, not least because my sensible and genuine concerns had been completely ignored, and I felt I'd been treated as a stupid, interfering parent.

But then the full picture emerged. I happened to be speaking to another parent who told me she had been very shocked to hear what had happened to DS, although initially I didn't fully understand what she meant. Her child gave an account (unprompted by me, I should add) that was identical to DS's. She said that nobody had even heard his comment (which in my opinion merely illustrated a mature understanding of the potential impact of drugs anyway) and that it was only the teacher flying off the handle that caused any interest in it. But - and this is the significant bit - it also transpired from this third party account that DS had been made to stand facing the wall until the end of lesson, and was at that point given the detention. And that was the bit that crushed me. DS is the most gentle, kind and sensitive of boys, has never been in trouble before, and there could have been no need to subject him to that kind of humiliation in front of his peers. Detentions and discipline, yes - but peer humiliation, most definitely no!!!

Suddenly it all made sense. No wonder he had come home from school so upset. And the thing that really distressed me was that he had felt so much shame and humiliation that he hadn't even been able to tell me about it. My heart broke for him. Little wonder that he was unwilling to go back into school to face his peers. Personally, I felt that such a punishment merely lacked a cap with a big 'D' on the front - a punishment more suited to 1913 than 2013.

I set about researching the pathogenic effects and the damage of peer humiliation (which has a profound impact on cognitive development and behaviour in children). Armed with the evidence, I emailed the head teacher with a formal grievance (the substantive points of which were 1. the failure of the teacher to engage with me and 2. the humiliation punishment that was used). That was acknowledged by the head, who said he would appoint his deputy (also the head of pastoral care) to investiagte, and would then meet with me to discuss the matter.

The deputy called me yesterday and Oh. My. God!!!! It has been a long, long time since I've spoken to anybody who was so bloody-minded and unintelligent. In spite of promises by the head, he refused to have a meeting with me, although I asked repeatedly if we could sit down to talk about my complaint. Every time I asked, his parrotted reply was that he 'would not normally meet with a parent to discuss a detention'. It didn't matter how many times I repeated that the detention was the least of my concerns, he wouldn't listen. In the end I even said that I felt like Jeremy Paxman and I said I wanted a straight answer to a straight question - but his reply was the same again!!!

In the end, I said I would redial and speak to the head, which I duly did. Of course, in the intervening minutes, the deputy had skidded down the corridor to forewarn the head and the head was, initially at least, every bit as hostile. We spoke for about ten minutes, most of which was decidedly heated, and I have to say, most (though by no means all) of the anger came from him not me! Clearly, he was unused to being challenged by a parent and he didn't like it at all. I felt his attitude was autocratic, verging on imperialistic - and told him so!! He actually told me that DS wasn't made to stand facing the wall, he was made to stand at the edge of the room, looking away from the class group!! Oh dear. Talk about semantics!!! Paradoxically, his refusal to accept that DS had been made to stand facing the wall seems clearly to indicate that he knew how unacceptable that would have been. I said that kind of ducking and diving, that kind of manipulation was fundamentally dishonest and slippery and wouldn't play out at all well in the press.

At about that point, we had a u-turn and he invited me in to see him on Monday for a cup of tea and a biscuit.

Basically, it would help me to know if anybody else has had a similar experience. I have the meeting next Monday and would really like to know what options I have/don't have. DS is really suffering and has lost a lot of confidence and self-esteem since this incident. I think it's something that he will carry around with him for the rest of his life.

OP posts:
pudding25 · 01/11/2013 13:41

You are massively over reacting and coming across as unhinged. You are going to turn your child into a quivering wreck. Your DS was behaving inappropriately, casuing disruption to the class and saying something he shouldn't have. He got told to go and stand in the corner (no doubt to stop him causing further disruption) and he rightly got a detention.

The teachers must think you are crazy.

AngelsLieToKeepControl · 01/11/2013 13:41

I set about researching the pathogenic effects and the damage of peer humiliation (which has a profound impact on cognitive development and behaviour in children). Armed with the evidence, I emailed the head teacher with a formal grievance

I said that kind of ducking and diving, that kind of manipulation was fundamentally dishonest and slippery and wouldn't play out at all well in the press

Seriously? I'm not surprised that he doesn't want to meet with you, your reation is way OTT. Calm down a bit before you go in all guns blazing to the meeting.

sandyballs · 01/11/2013 13:41

I'm quite shocked at how badly you and your son have taken this. It isn't a huge thing and he certainly won't be 'scarred for life'. As someone else said, he will have to face a hell of a lot more during his school career and it is your job to help toughen him up a bit and cope with it, not go barging into school about trivia.

Not all teachers are great, some make mistakes, understandably. It's life.

annie987 · 01/11/2013 13:42

I do agree that facing the wall is not appropriate for academic failure as described above duringaths lessons but for behaviour - no problem.

mijas99 · 01/11/2013 13:42

I think I have entered a parallel universe

I've never heard of such an overeaction from a parent. My God the teachers must hate you, and you are doing your son no favours, that will trasmit to him

This kind of stuff happened in every class at my school. It is just part of school. Maybe you should keep your child at home so he doesnt have to interact with other humans, he being so sensitive and all

NotYoMomma · 01/11/2013 13:43

how could the teacher see him in her office. 1) they might not have an office
2) they had all the other kids to deal with
3) she couldnt send him outside in case he ran off, needed to keep an eye on him while still teach
4) he seemed to be equating giggling and laughing (generally good things) with drug taking - completely inappropriate for school!

think you have totally over reacted tbh

Strumpetron · 01/11/2013 13:44

OP you need to be careful that you don't project onto your son also.

Like I said before if he can't take an incident like this, I'd worry about him down the line.

NotYoMomma · 01/11/2013 13:44

you threatened the press? omfg

Morgause · 01/11/2013 13:44

Massive, massive over reaction.

What do you expect to happen? Your son was being a pain and he got told off. He was made to face away from the others and not make them laugh again. He got detention for his bad behaviour. He'll get a lot worse than that as he goes through life if he doesn't toe the line.

For goodness sake calm down before you make a total fool of yourself on Monday.

tearoomtrash · 01/11/2013 13:44

I think your son may end up feeling more humiliated by how you have approached the issue than the incident itself.

I can understand why you feel the way you do, but I don't think you've handled it well.

How does your son feel about your involvement?

pippalonglegs · 01/11/2013 13:45

Please, if you're going to comment on this, could you make sure that you've read what i've said properly?

MrsDB, you really are very aggressive and unhelpful. Wow!! Redskyatnight - gaining a thorough understanding was exactly what I was trying to do with a request for a meeting that was refused!!

And Mitzyme, thanks so much for your kindness. Decent people do exist.

OP posts:
meditrina · 01/11/2013 13:45

I think you need to prepare by controlling the hurt you say you are feeling, and dropping preconcptions about things like the stress level if the teacher.

What is left is that DS made comment the teacher found objectionable at least loud enough for her to have heard it in a noisy class. DS told you part of what ensued, and another account (if accurate) shows he did not tell you everything.

You need to find out what happened, and more about the sanctions policy in the school.

sandyballs · 01/11/2013 13:45

And is he really as quiet, sensitive and well behaved as you think he is. I used to have rose tinted glasses on about one of my DCs until I overheard her in the playground one day.

MrsBungleScare · 01/11/2013 13:46

From what you've said, IMO this is a huge over-reaction. I think it's a crap punishment but it's not so bad as to provoke this reaction from you.

Finola1step · 01/11/2013 13:46

I'm sorry OP, you probably will not like my opinion but here goes. You have blown this way out of proportion.

Yes, it's wrong to make a child face the wall. But not wrong to seperate children in such circumstances. It sounds like to me that the teacher was quite stressed and your son bore the brunt - which is wrong.

All this stuff about your son carrying this around with him for the rest of his life. Really? An uncomfortable memory in years to come but surely he is resilient enough to bounce back from this. If not, then you are not helping him. You will be adding to his embarrassment.

You've got a bee in your bonnet and you can't let go. Yes the drama teacher should have engaged more with you in the beginning. But a formal grievance and talks of the press. You have simply marked your card as a bit of a nutty mother who needs to be treated with kid gloves.

It is your over reaction to the situation that could have a long term impact on your child. Mountain and molehill OP.

Floggingmolly · 01/11/2013 13:47

You are over reacting in a rather extreme way.
I set about researching the pathogenic effects and the damage of peer humiliation Hmm. That sounds like they put your ds in the stocks and had the class throw rotten fruit at him. Could his reluctance to tell you what happened be more to do with how he expected you to react, and less to do with the "shame" of it?
It's a crap punishment, but it's not damaging to anyone with a normal healthy sense of self esteem.

MrsDavidBowie · 01/11/2013 13:48

very aggressive and unhelpful
Hmm

because I didn't agree with you?

I actually have been very measured. This is your first AIBU post I see.

CoffeeTea103 · 01/11/2013 13:49

You say he's quiet, sensitive, well behaved. No he was laughing loudly, made an inappropriate comment, and was disrupting class. Think you need to think about it again.

NotYoMomma · 01/11/2013 13:49

if she had just shouted at him in front of the class is that also peer humiliation?

I know a woman who objected to her family telling her children off in public because it embarrassed him. he is a little shit

ATruthUniversallyAcknowledged · 01/11/2013 13:49

I've read what you said properly. I think you are hugely overreacting and that this is not the right school for you and your son. Not because they did anything wrong ,but because you clearly have no respect for the professionalism of the staff. If you continue with this attitude it will not end well.

QueenMedb · 01/11/2013 13:49

I know it hurts when your child is hurt. OP, but I think your response isn't helping your son by magnifying the original incident, (which I agree suggests unideal disciplining from the teacher) and he may well be picking up on your anger and distress, too. Yes, he needs to know you have his back in need, but I don't think this situation warrants such action.

What MrsTerryPratchett said, really. I don't think 'he needs to toughen up' is a helpful way of thinking about this kind of thing (especially as it's such a gendered idea), but I think it's important to help your child gradually acquire skills in dealing with incidents of unfairness, and emotional resilience.

Mitzyme · 01/11/2013 13:49

Mrs TP very good advise. I could have done with this help. Bit too late for me now!

squeakytoy · 01/11/2013 13:49

"I set about researching the pathogenic effects and the damage of peer humiliation (which has a profound impact on cognitive development and behaviour in children)."

for heavens sakes... you are going to make this into so much more than it actually was with this sort of over-reaction...

as well as making yourself look completely ridiculous if you waltz into the school to make a scene out of it..

sandyballs · 01/11/2013 13:51

I'm actually wondering if this is real as I can't for the life of me imagine anyone I know reacting like this.

Have you asked your DS for further details?

squeaver · 01/11/2013 13:52

Dear God, based on your title, I thought this was going to be some sort of pants down, communal flogging scenario.

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