Able-bodied people should offer their seat on a crowded train to elderly people, yes?

[LOLisNOTaPunctuationMark]

Am i alone in thinking this? After today, i feel like i am.

I went for the train home at 4.10pm. Just like every other day, the platform was swarming with people waiting to board. So on we all rushed when the train arrived. As usual, i found myself at the back of the mob queue, so had to stand as all seats were taken. (There's really no queue etiquette. Someone who had been waiting for 20 minutes doesn't get to go before someone who's just arrived for example.

Anyway, my train home is massive. It takes me about 90 secs to walk from the first to the last carriage, and that's with me walking quickly.

I found myself an inch of a handrail to hold onto next to the doors. I was in the smallest carriage. There's 6 tables with 6 chairs to a table (3 at each side of it). All seats were full (except a middle one at a back table). There was approx 12 people standing next and around me next to the door space.

In other words, it was packed.

Behind me, an elderly man and woman squeezed onto the train. The woman was really tiny and frail. She was huffing and sighing at there not being a seat. I pointed out the empty one at the back, but the elderly man was already making his way towards it.

After about a minute, the train starts. The woman was very unbalanced and staggered into people several times. She said very loudly how unfriendly our country is and how much nicer it is in Dublin. Then the elderly man shouts down that we are friendly in this country, just not on trains.

At the next stop, another five people squished inside. The woman was getting pushed into another man sitting at one of the front tables. he kept tutting loudly and finally snapped and asked her to watch herself.

All the while, the people at the tables were just staring blankly ahead, or immersed in their phones, and two people were looking at her and grinning.

Eventually, a woman offered her her seat because she was getting off at the next stop anyway.

Apart from the elderly woman and man in that carriage, no one else was elderly. I'm aware that some people may have had disabilities, but statistically it's unlikely that everyone sitting down had a disability/disorder/pregnancy etc.

I've always been brought up to offer my seat to an elderly person if somewhere is crowded, and i'm bringing my 5yo daughter up to do the same. She has a disability which sometimes means she can't always give up her seat, but on the occasions she can, she does.

I'm just really saddened by it. The woman seemed very shocked as if she expected someone to offer her a seat, and kept shaking her head and sighing.

I'm dreading being old.

dubstarr

I see it more as vicious circle. Ageism is rife in our society

I too am like the posters upthread who are saddened by so many parents who allow their children travelling free to sit while adults stand. Those children turn in to people like Murasaki. Be warned.

What utter bollocks. I can't understand the mentality of people who expect small children to stand up so able-bodied adults can sit down. A hangover of the 'children should be seen and not heard' era and quite frankly it can stay there.

This is irrelevant to the OP's original post anyway.

makemineabacardi - let me guess, are you a Teddington mum by any chance??

The majority of Londoners including myself happily give up seats to people with young toddlers as it can be quite difficult for them to stand safely in a packed carriage. Obviously if an elderly person is frail and unstable on their feet similar to a young toddler then i'd happily give them my seat however I don't automatically give an 'older' person my seat because of some notion about respecting elders. As a human being I am kind and considerate to people who may be in need of my seat regardless of 'age'.

I was on the tube last week and my son who is asthmatic had quickly developed a serious wheeze and was sitting next to his grandma who was letting him rest his head in her lap. Some Geordie family with luggage got on and the 18yr girl said nastily in my earshot 'She (MIL) should put that kid on her lap'. Why should a poorly young child be turfed out of a seat just to let somebody with luggage sit down? Cant we give consideration to old and young alike

baking

That's a reminder to not make assumptions.

But in general small children should be on laps, IMO. I wouldn't go making PA comments though

Patty

What is a Teddinton mum? Is there a Teddington "Brigade"? How does one join?

To be fair baking why couldn't he sit on a knee? My son has asthma and I can think of no reason he would need his own seat during an attack. the girl shouldn't have commented though.

No Patty I am not, never even heard of the place until now. Google is a wonderful thing. What's a Teddington mum?

And exactly what bearing does that have on anything here?

I have few memories of riding the tube during Remembrance Sunday in
London. Just shocking. Frail old people trying to alight the train and cope wearing their poppies while no one gave a toss.

When I was heavily pregnant I remember standing for the whole of a 40 minute journey. I ached.

The only people I ever see offer seats are middle aged women. And young men from Eastern Europe. I personally have never seen a young man, of any colour/ethnicity who is native to London offer a seat to anyone. Disgusting really.

Sirzy I guess he could have sat on his grandma's knee but he was more comfortable being in the position he was in. I see no reason to prioritise an anonymous 18yr olds desire to sit down with luggage above that of my own son. Sorry if that makes me a bad person, but I'll happily put the needs of my son above that of strangers and i'm more than happy to go to hell for that!

makemine

I suspect it's not good

Bakingaddict +1000000000000,my thoughts exactly.

It's because the world is now full of people who put themselves and their families before anyone else that elderly people end up standing on a tube train after paying tribute to those of their generation who died for such freedom.

Makes you wonder why they bothered.

Probably not Newt but it's intrigued me now

Well of course my kids come before anyone else,it would be weird if they didnt.
As i said before if im on my own i offer a seat,if i have my kids with me i dont.Cause i get people moaning that teh kids are messing.Which is what kids do if they can

I'm so glad you agree dubstar...I was beginning to feel AIBU.

Sheesh.

Sick children might need to keep seats.
Some older people look quite healthy.

But in general, if you see an elderly person clearly in need of a seat, why the fuck wouldnt you?

Unless you were a selfish 'only I matter' kind of person.

One day it will be you and yours who may need help. Most of us cannot imagine the realities of old age, day to day.

And finally, by all means dont teach your children to be charitable, and considerate... see where that gets you long term.

To all those who say kids have no entitlement to a seat regardless of the situation or circumstances go and polish your effing halos meanwhile those of us in the real world will make do and get along as best we can while still trying to consider those around us BUT not jeopardising our loved ones in the process

I don't think kids have no entitlement to a seat but when something as simple as sitting them on your knee means one less person needs to stand then I really don't see why you wouldn't. To me that is common courtesy.

I wouldn't dream of making my children give up their seats for able-bodied adults, especially as I've paid for their seats too.

My children are not second-class citizens, and I do not treat them as such or allow strangers to do so either.

I have 3 smallish kids how many knees have i got.Really its not teaching your kids to be unchartitable its teaching them just cause they are kids doesnt make them less important.When they are older and are capable of standing then thaey will.But at the minute its just not feasable.

I think it is common courtesy to allow somebody who clearly needs the seat to reside in the seat, I would never get on the tube and expect a child, teenager or somebody younger than me to give up their seat solely on the basis that my need is greater than theirs by virtue of age. I don't know what kind of day they've had, unseen medical conditions etc, etc, I would never be so entitled or obnoxious to expect it

Dubb - of course it has to be realistic but one child onto a knee surely isn't a hardship? Nobody has suggested you have to have 15 children on your knees or anything else.

And having to sit on a knee to allow someone to sit down is hardly saying they aren't important is it!

I'm sure a lot of people have said this, but the social rule is pretty simple: if you see someone less able to stand than yourself, you offer a seat. You teach your children to do the same.

Nothing wrong with children sitting while able-bodied adults stand. They have as much right to a seat as anyone. But they should surely offer a seat to anyone who looks less able than themselves.

If you need my DC's seat, and she's absorbed in her book, she is not being rude. She is distracted. You may approach and ask her. I don't expect her to scan the bus/train at each stop for potential need. I don't do that, either. Just ask, she'll move, and so will I.

And for those less able to stand, tutting in an undirected way, or berating a whole bus/trainload of people for their rudeness, is ineffective and counter-productive. Ask a specific person. They may refuse, in which case you ask the next person. It's a pain, but if you need a seat you need a seat, and it will work much better than loudly complaining about rudeness.

Do you know the 18 year old you are judging didn't have a unseen medical condition? Or are you just assuming? Perhaps she had had a shit day too. You never know do you. You can't complain about being judged and then make assumptions yourself.