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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Able-bodied people should offer their seat on a crowded train to elderly people, yes?

224 replies

LOLisNOTaPunctuationMark · 29/10/2013 17:32

Am i alone in thinking this? After today, i feel like i am.

I went for the train home at 4.10pm. Just like every other day, the platform was swarming with people waiting to board. So on we all rushed when the train arrived. As usual, i found myself at the back of the mob queue, so had to stand as all seats were taken. (There's really no queue etiquette. Someone who had been waiting for 20 minutes doesn't get to go before someone who's just arrived for example.

Anyway, my train home is massive. It takes me about 90 secs to walk from the first to the last carriage, and that's with me walking quickly.

I found myself an inch of a handrail to hold onto next to the doors. I was in the smallest carriage. There's 6 tables with 6 chairs to a table (3 at each side of it). All seats were full (except a middle one at a back table). There was approx 12 people standing next and around me next to the door space.

In other words, it was packed.

Behind me, an elderly man and woman squeezed onto the train. The woman was really tiny and frail. She was huffing and sighing at there not being a seat. I pointed out the empty one at the back, but the elderly man was already making his way towards it.

After about a minute, the train starts. The woman was very unbalanced and staggered into people several times. She said very loudly how unfriendly our country is and how much nicer it is in Dublin. Then the elderly man shouts down that we are friendly in this country, just not on trains.

At the next stop, another five people squished inside. The woman was getting pushed into another man sitting at one of the front tables. he kept tutting loudly and finally snapped and asked her to watch herself.

All the while, the people at the tables were just staring blankly ahead, or immersed in their phones, and two people were looking at her and grinning.

Eventually, a woman offered her her seat because she was getting off at the next stop anyway.

Apart from the elderly woman and man in that carriage, no one else was elderly. I'm aware that some people may have had disabilities, but statistically it's unlikely that everyone sitting down had a disability/disorder/pregnancy etc.

I've always been brought up to offer my seat to an elderly person if somewhere is crowded, and i'm bringing my 5yo daughter up to do the same. She has a disability which sometimes means she can't always give up her seat, but on the occasions she can, she does.

I'm just really saddened by it. The woman seemed very shocked as if she expected someone to offer her a seat, and kept shaking her head and sighing.

I'm dreading being old.

OP posts:
WooWooOwl · 30/10/2013 11:59

I agree the high price for tickets makes a difference to people's attitudes.

When they already feel like they are being ripped off, they are unlikely to want to give even more.

Mouthfulofquiz · 30/10/2013 12:06

If you are going to tut and sigh which is very annoying, why not just ask someone for their seat?

FranSanDisco · 30/10/2013 12:09

When I was in my early 20s I got off my seat for an elderly lady who looked quite frail and was standing opposite me. As soon as I got up another elderly lady sat in it. SHe wasn't as frail looking or as old imho. I said politely whilst indicating to older lady 'I was letting this lady sit down'. She gave a withering look and never budged. I felt a little foolish that I hadn't planned this gesture properly as frail old lady was shuffling snail's pace towards me! She was quite put out that I hadn't saved seat for her or turfed squatter off seat. She huffed and puffed as though I had caused respiratory collapse. I was very glad to get off Blush.

dubstarr73 · 30/10/2013 12:15

See teh thing is my older kids would get up.But i have 5,4 and 2 1/2 year old.To me they need the seats otherwise they mess and try and run around.Causing more problems.
When i had a double buggy and used to get the bus the amount of old people who would hop on and break their necks to get the seat so you couldnt have it.
They used to get turfed out by the drivers,just cause they are old doesnt mean they come before anyone else.

morethanpotatoprints · 30/10/2013 12:24

That is absolutely disgusting OP.
There is no way I wouldn't have given my seat up and have taught my dc to do the same.
Why in this day and age do people still behave like this.
Even if you have a long journey others will be getting off before you and more seats will be available.
The poor old things, I am Angry thinking about it.
The man telling her to be careful would have been it for me, I'm afraid I couldn't have bit my lip then. Grin

SummerRemembered · 30/10/2013 12:28

I've just remembered the time my friend's mother got on a bus on which I already had a seat. By this time the bus was full so she stood next to my seat and chatted for the duration of the journey. I was about 22 and she would have been around 45 - so not elderly and definitely in good health but I knew two things about her: Firstly she was a stickler for manners and secondly she had recently burst into floods of tears after being told she looked "well" because this was a euphemism for fat. I spent the journey in excruciating confusion, not knowing if I should offer my seat or if this would make her feel old and upset her. In the end I stayed seated. It was the wrong decision - she told her daughter about how selfish and rude I had been and went out of her way to blank me at her daughter's wedding a few years later.

SueDoku · 30/10/2013 13:15

The thing that no-one else has mentioned is the fact that the old man took the one available seat... Surely if he was so well-brought-up, he should have let the lady have it and stood himself....?

WooWooOwl · 30/10/2013 13:26

Why should an old man have to give up a seat before an old woman?

No one has picked up on it because she had no more right to the seat than he did!

Strumpetron · 30/10/2013 13:27

The thing that no-one else has mentioned is the fact that the old man took the one available seat... Surely if he was so well-brought-up, he should have let the lady have it and stood himself

Hmm
samandi · 30/10/2013 13:38

The old man deserved the seat just as much as the old woman. Unless of course, she was older or obviously less capable of standing. Saying he should've offered it to her is bonkers. Outdated chivalry that has no place in the modern world.

MadeOfStarDust · 30/10/2013 13:39

on a train journey I book seats, on a bus journey I deliberately try to get the bus when there are seats available... I like to travel in comfort and safety. If I have planned and paid etc etc, I am much less likely to give up my seat to someone who hasn't.... I do, of course, but can sometimes be heard to mutter under my breath....

It annoys me that when I go to town in the morning I get on at a stop far enough from town that I can sit - am often one of the first 3 on the bus - I am often the only one to pay for my ticket, yet still end up standing by the time we get closer to town.... free bus passes here REALLY took off.....

(I am also of an era where a well mannered elderly man would have stood for an elderly woman - just because it is was good manners to do so, not a feminist ideal, but it was once so)

PattyPuddy · 30/10/2013 13:48

I too am like the posters upthread who are saddened by so many parents who allow their children travelling free to sit while adults stand. Those children turn in to people like Murasaki. Be warned.

Strumpetron · 30/10/2013 13:48

If we want equality and to be treated like we should be, we can't go back on that and expect men to give up their bloody seats for us.

Personally I'd find it funny.

PattyPuddy · 30/10/2013 13:53

Strumpetron - if you can't see the manners involved in this I feel sad for you.

Strumpetron · 30/10/2013 13:55

patty sorry I just don't go for outdated practices that revolve around attitudes where the little womenz weren't strong enough to stand and needed a chivalrous man to come save them.

I think it's nice for anyone to offer a seat, but doing so just because I'm a woman isn't what I want nor need.

SilveryMoon · 30/10/2013 13:58

About 2 years ago I was on the train with dp. It was reasonably busy with no seats, me and dp stood in the middle holding on to the ceiling bar. A woman in a seat infront of me jumped up and said "Here, have my seat" I was a bit Confused so politely thanked her but said I was fine standing. She was quite adament that I have her seat and I continued to be a bit baffled by this.
Until I realised that she must have thought I was pregnant! Blush
I told her it was fine, I wasn't pregnant and didn't require her seat. She apologised and looked mortified! I should have taken her seat and saved her from that I think. Dp found it very amusing.
I have had more seats offered to me not pregnant than I have when I was at my most pregnant. Not sure if that says more about me or the general public Blush Grin

SatinSandals · 30/10/2013 14:08

It is nothing to do with equality, it is just thinking of others and giving them your seat if you think they are struggling with standing.

Strumpetron · 30/10/2013 14:10

It is nothing to do with equality, it is just thinking of others and giving them your seat if you think they are struggling with standing

Actually the poster above thinks the 'old' man should have given it up for the 'old' woman purely based on her sex. That isn't about weighing up whether she was struggling.

SatinSandals · 30/10/2013 14:17

That is different. Many on here would class me as an 'old woman' but as I go running most days and am fit I would give up my seat for people of either sex, or any age, if they struggle.

NewtRipley · 30/10/2013 14:21

Crikee

I have done this before. And it worked

NewtRipley · 30/10/2013 14:24

Mouthful

The tutting and sighing is annoying, but some elderly people have not been brought up to be assertive. Some are even fearful of being assertive.

dubstarr73 · 30/10/2013 14:26

Here in Dublin where i am the only children are free up to 3 years of age.So i pay for my 2 children,whereas oaps have free bus passes and my young children have to give up their seat.No way,they are not steady enough and cant reach the safety bars.I have often gave my seat up but i have my kids with me,they come first.

NewtRipley · 30/10/2013 14:26

re: teenage boys

When I was pg on London Transport, the most frequent (by far) offers of help/seats came from young men and middle-aged women

quoteunquote · 30/10/2013 14:27

Just ask in a loud voice, which person is going to stand and give their seat to the person that needs it more than they do,

It always works,

If not get your phone out and film, do a commentary, explaining this is what people who don't give up their seats look like, and invite them all to view themselves on you tube under selfish train passengers on Glasgow train.

only a vile hateful person would pretend not to see an elderly woman, treat them in the way that deserves.

dubstarr73 · 30/10/2013 14:30

I found that as well,most people that help you are teenage boys or middle aged woman.Business or old people tended to ignore you.I find most of the time the older generation have such little respect for anyone,they really shouldnt expect respect.Its earned.