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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Able-bodied people should offer their seat on a crowded train to elderly people, yes?

224 replies

LOLisNOTaPunctuationMark · 29/10/2013 17:32

Am i alone in thinking this? After today, i feel like i am.

I went for the train home at 4.10pm. Just like every other day, the platform was swarming with people waiting to board. So on we all rushed when the train arrived. As usual, i found myself at the back of the mob queue, so had to stand as all seats were taken. (There's really no queue etiquette. Someone who had been waiting for 20 minutes doesn't get to go before someone who's just arrived for example.

Anyway, my train home is massive. It takes me about 90 secs to walk from the first to the last carriage, and that's with me walking quickly.

I found myself an inch of a handrail to hold onto next to the doors. I was in the smallest carriage. There's 6 tables with 6 chairs to a table (3 at each side of it). All seats were full (except a middle one at a back table). There was approx 12 people standing next and around me next to the door space.

In other words, it was packed.

Behind me, an elderly man and woman squeezed onto the train. The woman was really tiny and frail. She was huffing and sighing at there not being a seat. I pointed out the empty one at the back, but the elderly man was already making his way towards it.

After about a minute, the train starts. The woman was very unbalanced and staggered into people several times. She said very loudly how unfriendly our country is and how much nicer it is in Dublin. Then the elderly man shouts down that we are friendly in this country, just not on trains.

At the next stop, another five people squished inside. The woman was getting pushed into another man sitting at one of the front tables. he kept tutting loudly and finally snapped and asked her to watch herself.

All the while, the people at the tables were just staring blankly ahead, or immersed in their phones, and two people were looking at her and grinning.

Eventually, a woman offered her her seat because she was getting off at the next stop anyway.

Apart from the elderly woman and man in that carriage, no one else was elderly. I'm aware that some people may have had disabilities, but statistically it's unlikely that everyone sitting down had a disability/disorder/pregnancy etc.

I've always been brought up to offer my seat to an elderly person if somewhere is crowded, and i'm bringing my 5yo daughter up to do the same. She has a disability which sometimes means she can't always give up her seat, but on the occasions she can, she does.

I'm just really saddened by it. The woman seemed very shocked as if she expected someone to offer her a seat, and kept shaking her head and sighing.

I'm dreading being old.

OP posts:
Corygal · 29/10/2013 19:50

What I loathe most is seeing large children wedged into seats while an old person hovers in misery - really strikes a nerve of uncouthness.

likelytoasksillyquestions · 29/10/2013 19:53

The passive-aggression would have annoyed me, but I'd still have given up my seat as soon as I noticed.

It's totally about "meh, someone else will do it", though. When I was heavily pg, and when I've travelled with a baby in a sling, I definitely noticed that other passengers made a point of pushing to get on ahead of me. I can only imagine the thought process is "she's pg/carrying a child, someone else will offer her a seat, so I'll get on quick to try and grab any seat which is actually spare". It happened way too many times to be coincidence, and my mum noticed it too so I don't think it was about perception. Really eye-opening, and now I'm doubly aware of who else is getting on my bus/train so I can quickly offer a seat if necessary.

MrsDeVere · 29/10/2013 19:58

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

WooWooOwl · 29/10/2013 19:58

I'm someone that was brought up to offer seats to people that need them, I can actually remember my cousin and I competing to be the first to offer our seats on a fairly empty bus one when we were kids.

But the rudeness of that woman would have kept me firmly in my seat I'm afraid. Manners cost nothing, and old people don't have the right to be rude and then expect to be treated well just because they are old.

BroodyTroody · 29/10/2013 20:00

I will always give my seat up, and will ask someone to move for a less able person to sit down.

I've been on the tube wearing my baby on board badge and no one bats an eyelid... Must admit last week I had a bit of a meltdown, crying and everything, still no seat, but this kind man widened his stance so that other passengers had to give me a bit more space Smile cheered me up a bit. But he was looking at me like he was thinking 'crazy emotional pregnant lady... What do I do?!' Also made me chuckle! Grin

LRDtheFeministDragon · 29/10/2013 20:03

MrsDeV - I agree with you that people may be less noticing these days.

But I would be shocked if someone had their child stand up - unless it were a teenager. I would routinely give my seat for a child who is less than adult height, because of course they cannot hang on to the overhead rails, and in a normal train, they are just less steady. I don't think children should be giving up seats, ideally. Should they?

Mim78 · 29/10/2013 20:11

Sounds terrible. Of course elderly people should be given a seat. I would always give up my seat for elderly people. Might hope that someone else would do it first while I'm pregnant thought!

I think the elderly woman would have been better advised to ask someone directly for a seat rather than just tutting etc. It's easy to ignore someone tutting but not being asked directly. If I had been there and near enough to do so I would have asked someone for her. The man who asked her to watch herself was appalling - imagine saying that to an elderly woman - at that she should definitely have asked him to get up.

Being pregnant at the moment, and in possession of a baby on board badge, I do find I always have to ask someone rather that being offered. The badge is probably not as obvious as an old lady swaying all over the place though!

FishfingersAreOK · 29/10/2013 20:11

YANBU. Though it does not just happen on trains. I was at Fracture Clinic last Wednesday - with a clearly broken foot (bright blue cast, crutches). The clinic was running late so packed - no seats in the waiting room. I was actually fine to stand but a chap with a broken arm kindly offered me his seat.

Whilst waiting I (judgy pants) noticed several non-injured people sitting (parents with older children, a mid-20s daughter and her toddler with her injured older mother) people taking seats. Those left standing were generally "able" to. Then an elderly lady came in. She was with her injured husband who was in a wheel chair. This elderly lady, though not injured herself, was very frail. I looked around. Everyone kept their heads down. I offered her my seat. She tried to refuse but I had none of it- she needed it and deserved the respect of having it far more than I did.

No-one else said a bloody thing! Though the next time a seat came free I was urged to take it.

I was quite cross with the able bodies people hogging the seats.

70isaLimitNotaTarget · 29/10/2013 20:29

When I was a child (old gimmer alert here) a child paid half fare and the consensus was they stood (or sat on a parents knee) if an adult needed a seat

In Leeds (bus) I told my DC they'd have to budge up but a man said "They've paid for their seats let them sit"

And I was very pleased with my DS when he got up at the bus-stop to let an elderly gent have a seat on the bench. (ahhh, loved him)

thanksforthememories · 29/10/2013 20:35

Can't relate to trains but on a recent trip to gatwick airport, we had to go on the bus to take us from plane to terminal. Of course everyone ran off and on to grab the seats on the bus. It annoyed me that I was travelling on my own with small dd, had a bag on my back and her in my arms whilst trying to stay upright on this moving bus! I was shocked that no one got up to let me sit down.

Seems manors are hard to come by these days

LRDtheFeministDragon · 29/10/2013 20:35

But 70, surely a child is more vulnerable? They can't cling on to so much, and they are less strong. In an accident they would go flying. And you could hardly have a child on your knee unless you were fit and healthy.

I think surely, if someone knows their child can stand, the onus is on them to make sure that child does stand. But we shouldn't assume children can, should we? They are more vulnerable than healthy adults I would think?

madmomma · 29/10/2013 20:35

Appalling. I've seen it myself and it's so very sad. If a child of mine ever acted like that to an old person, no matter what their attitude, I would have absolutely failed.

suebfg · 29/10/2013 20:38

I would have given up my seat. I used to commute by train and was gobsmacked by the number of men (mostly younger men) who would stay sat and it was the women on the train offering to give up their seats to elderly people.

KCumberSandwich · 29/10/2013 20:39

i give my seat up on busy transport to almost anyone, standing doesn't bother me. without fail i would offer a seat to elderly, disabled, pregnant or baby wearing and young children (i feel sorry for their wee legs and them getting shoved around). sometimes i just offer seats to people who are laden with stuff or look puffed out. if im feeling knackered myself i might not unless they really need it but id rather stand than see someone suffer.

i will bring my son up to do the same.

madmomma · 29/10/2013 20:39

And the greatest test of good manners is dealing kindly and gracefully with ill-mannered people, so saying that the elderly woman had a bad attitude is irrelevant.

suebfg · 29/10/2013 20:41

Pregnancy is a difficult one. It is sometimes difficult to tell between an overweight lady and a pregnant lady so unless it is obvious, people might be scared of making a mistake and offending said lady.

murasaki · 29/10/2013 20:42

I frequently wait for the next train to get a seat. Or get there early to ensure one. So I'm not giving it up for someone who could have planned better and done the same, particularly on my commute home.

Sorry, but there it is.

starkadder · 29/10/2013 20:43

Completely agree with you; I always give up mine but everyone around me seems amazed when I do. I just think - if there was one seat left and me and an old lady were both heading towards it, would I shove her out of the way and grab it? Of course not; she would have more claim to it than me. So it follows that I should give it to her. I've also given up my seat (to older people) while pregnant (early, so not showing, but feeling TERRIBLE) just because it pisses me off so much that nobody else does...

Sirzy · 29/10/2013 20:43

I would have given up a seat without doubt, if i had been standing I would have guilted asked others to let her sit down.

Sirzy · 29/10/2013 20:45

Mura how do you know she "could have planned better"? Do you know the purpose of her journey or the degree of flexibility she had in travel times?

starkadder · 29/10/2013 20:45

Ps my mum literally had to sit on the floor in a crowded train recently because she just couldn't stand any more and no-one offered their seat. So shocking.

hmc · 29/10/2013 20:45

Absolutely they should

What an utterly depressing self-centred society we live in now

suebfg · 29/10/2013 20:46

What a bad attitude murasaki!

hmc · 29/10/2013 20:46

Oh and Mura illustrates this perfectly

Nannyme1 · 29/10/2013 20:47

I try and give up my seat whenever possible and would jump straight up if asked, but am very guilty of dozing off/ head in my phone I barely look up when I'm on public transport. Note to self to pay more attention!

Took the little boy I look after on the tube for the first time a few months ago (had to) planned journey for not too busy was busy enough for all seats to be taken though. The poor guy (only two) was falling all over the place as was I, not the best ride! I was carrying to shoulder bags not one person offered to hop up in the end I sat him on a bag in between my knees and he held is hands in the air so I could hold on to them.. Complete disaster. Practically jumped at first seat available!

Even if no one NEEDS it as soon as busses start to get busy he is on my lap (if he likes it or not)