Able-bodied people should offer their seat on a crowded train to elderly people, yes?

[LOLisNOTaPunctuationMark]

Am i alone in thinking this? After today, i feel like i am.

I went for the train home at 4.10pm. Just like every other day, the platform was swarming with people waiting to board. So on we all rushed when the train arrived. As usual, i found myself at the back of the mob queue, so had to stand as all seats were taken. (There's really no queue etiquette. Someone who had been waiting for 20 minutes doesn't get to go before someone who's just arrived for example.

Anyway, my train home is massive. It takes me about 90 secs to walk from the first to the last carriage, and that's with me walking quickly.

I found myself an inch of a handrail to hold onto next to the doors. I was in the smallest carriage. There's 6 tables with 6 chairs to a table (3 at each side of it). All seats were full (except a middle one at a back table). There was approx 12 people standing next and around me next to the door space.

In other words, it was packed.

Behind me, an elderly man and woman squeezed onto the train. The woman was really tiny and frail. She was huffing and sighing at there not being a seat. I pointed out the empty one at the back, but the elderly man was already making his way towards it.

After about a minute, the train starts. The woman was very unbalanced and staggered into people several times. She said very loudly how unfriendly our country is and how much nicer it is in Dublin. Then the elderly man shouts down that we are friendly in this country, just not on trains.

At the next stop, another five people squished inside. The woman was getting pushed into another man sitting at one of the front tables. he kept tutting loudly and finally snapped and asked her to watch herself.

All the while, the people at the tables were just staring blankly ahead, or immersed in their phones, and two people were looking at her and grinning.

Eventually, a woman offered her her seat because she was getting off at the next stop anyway.

Apart from the elderly woman and man in that carriage, no one else was elderly. I'm aware that some people may have had disabilities, but statistically it's unlikely that everyone sitting down had a disability/disorder/pregnancy etc.

I've always been brought up to offer my seat to an elderly person if somewhere is crowded, and i'm bringing my 5yo daughter up to do the same. She has a disability which sometimes means she can't always give up her seat, but on the occasions she can, she does.

I'm just really saddened by it. The woman seemed very shocked as if she expected someone to offer her a seat, and kept shaking her head and sighing.

I'm dreading being old.

i wish i'd said something now. It's madness that train. Every day. I struggle to keep my balance and am thankful on the rare occasions i have something to hold on to. It must be quite an ordeal for someone elderly.

murasaki as i said in my OP, there's not a queue. The platform is enormous. People just spread out all over it in a mob. Even if you've been standing there for 20 minutes, you'd have no 'claim' to get on the train before someone who has just been on the platform for 30 secs.

If the elderly woman was to wait on the next train, she'd likely be in the exact same position. That specific train is always full. It's very rare to get a seat between 3-6.30pm. And it's unfair to expect elderly people not to use the train between these times.

Sorry, I know it is really, but when I'm knackered at the end of work, I just do the best for me. I plan my commute to/from work for me. Others can do the same if they wish. Or not, their call.

LoL - the trick is knowing where the doors are!

What a self centred selfish attitude Mura. I hope one day YOU are the one struggling and nobody helps you you realise just how horrible your actions are.

Well, at least you're honest murasaki but what a selfish attitude.

mura, I'm so awed.

You're sharing your knowledge of how others can cease to be disabled! You wonderful person!

I'm assuming this because you claim other people can do the same as you if they wish.

FWIW, one of my happier moments recently was when a train conductor decided to enforce the rules and made people stand.

It may be, and thanks Sirzy, nice 'hope' there - lovely attitude yourself, and I will take it as it goes, as I do on the many times I don't get a seat on the tube.

It's life. I just try to do my best to make it easier for myself.

Let's not get too gloomy about our so-called selfish society. My slim fit 60 year old DH often gets offered a seat on the tube in London. And while travelling with my 80 year old dad recently, people were falling over themselves to offer him a seat and help him carry his suitcase up stair cases and escalators (while I was struggling with the rest of the luggage). I was touched at people's kindness.

I would have given up my seat and although not grateful at the time I am now grateful I had to use public transport when DS was small as when he was a bit bigger and our car was in service he gave up his seat on the bus to an elderly lady without my prompting. I was nearly welling up with pride at his act of chivalry & just politeness frankly.

He wasn't so sure as the whole trip she was so loudly appreciative of his gesture, esp given his age, he felt embarrassed I was glad he restored her faith in young people.

LRD - that's a bit odd, I didn't say that at all, I said plan your journey, not magically become not disabled.

i might offer my seat on a short trip to elderly and pregnant , but not if they huffed , sighed and made comments .

But not everyone is in a position to be able to plan their journey. If you read the post by the OP she said there is a 3.5 hour window in which all trains are full - should the elderly and disabled just stay at home during these times?

Perhaps people like you could, just once, try thinking about someone other than yourself?

Don't you think though that if you do a good deed for someone, then they are more likely to do good deeds themselves and so it goes on ...

Hmmmm after living in Dublin for 5 years as a student with daily trips on public transport I'd disagree with what the woman said!! (Anywhere else in Ireland however, most people I'm sure would give up their seats.....). Still though, I do think somebody should have offered. It probably would have been better if she'd asked someone directly instead of passive aggressive huffing and puffing.

Of course any child over 3 or 4 can hold him/herself up as well as an adult - they can reach a vertical pole or side of a seat.

I don't agree with that at all, very few 3 or 4 year olds would be safe standing and I would without doubt let a young child sit before sitting myself.

When they get towards 7 or 8 then standing is different but I certainly wouldnt expect a pre school child to stand.

mur, I'm sorry I wasn't clear.

I'm so relieved that you've discovered how to plan a journey while disabled. That must be so wonderful. Could you explain how it works? Assuming of course that you can't rely on luxuries like knowing exactly when you're travelling, as many disabled people can't, what with working.

Fair point, Sue, and I'm not all bad, I do help with pushchairs down stairs etc, but commuting in London is not fun. And I will continue to make it as not-quite-as-bad for myself as I can.

Glad you're all enjoying your seats on the moral high ground, that' s a very comfy seat you've got there. Fancy giving it up for someone?

Murasaki - don't you realise that this is selfish? Or don't you see it that way? Do you have any morals / principles? Am not aiming to insult you - genuinely interested. Have been reading the Marquis de Sade (a boring ou thing)... and not being facetious but you could be his heir apparent!

Yes I agree,
I stood up on buses in the early days of pregnancy with severe morning sickness and lunatic drivers,on 4 buses a day.
Whilst I deserve some kind of karma/martyr medal, others aren't so selfless so perhaps don't assume there aren't other reasons?

Sorry I wasn't clear, LRD.

Working tends to mean you know when you're leaving. And waiting outside where the doors stop (for the next train if necessary, as I do), is a possibility.

It's got nothing to do with planning your journey - that is irrelevant. It's about being able to use public transport - whether you are disabled, heavily pregnant, elderly, laden down with a buggy and young children etc etc - and be able to rely on some common decency from fellow travellers and transport staff.

"She said very loudly how unfriendly our country is and how much nicer it is in Dublin."

I once stared into my phone for a whole train stop longer after some frankly quite nasty elderly people did this with loud huffing and puffing and going on about how horrible all the people around them were on a train I was on. I gave them my seat at the next stop and people around me did the same. They could have saved themselves a couple of minutes of bother if that hadn't been so unpleasant.

Its not brilliant behaviour on my part but I wasn't going to give into rude behaviour no matter how old they are.

I'm saddened that so few people these days teach their children to give up their seats. If they are too small to stand, they should be on their parent's lap on a busy train. If they are old enough to stand, they should.

All too often I'm on packed trains where parents are taking up whole blocks of seats with their precious darlings. Never seems to occur to them to budge up, put small children on their knees or make older children stand up - or stand up themselves if their children can't. It's rude and selfish and teaching children very bad manners indeed.