Able-bodied people should offer their seat on a crowded train to elderly people, yes?

[LOLisNOTaPunctuationMark]

Am i alone in thinking this? After today, i feel like i am.

I went for the train home at 4.10pm. Just like every other day, the platform was swarming with people waiting to board. So on we all rushed when the train arrived. As usual, i found myself at the back of the mob queue, so had to stand as all seats were taken. (There's really no queue etiquette. Someone who had been waiting for 20 minutes doesn't get to go before someone who's just arrived for example.

Anyway, my train home is massive. It takes me about 90 secs to walk from the first to the last carriage, and that's with me walking quickly.

I found myself an inch of a handrail to hold onto next to the doors. I was in the smallest carriage. There's 6 tables with 6 chairs to a table (3 at each side of it). All seats were full (except a middle one at a back table). There was approx 12 people standing next and around me next to the door space.

In other words, it was packed.

Behind me, an elderly man and woman squeezed onto the train. The woman was really tiny and frail. She was huffing and sighing at there not being a seat. I pointed out the empty one at the back, but the elderly man was already making his way towards it.

After about a minute, the train starts. The woman was very unbalanced and staggered into people several times. She said very loudly how unfriendly our country is and how much nicer it is in Dublin. Then the elderly man shouts down that we are friendly in this country, just not on trains.

At the next stop, another five people squished inside. The woman was getting pushed into another man sitting at one of the front tables. he kept tutting loudly and finally snapped and asked her to watch herself.

All the while, the people at the tables were just staring blankly ahead, or immersed in their phones, and two people were looking at her and grinning.

Eventually, a woman offered her her seat because she was getting off at the next stop anyway.

Apart from the elderly woman and man in that carriage, no one else was elderly. I'm aware that some people may have had disabilities, but statistically it's unlikely that everyone sitting down had a disability/disorder/pregnancy etc.

I've always been brought up to offer my seat to an elderly person if somewhere is crowded, and i'm bringing my 5yo daughter up to do the same. She has a disability which sometimes means she can't always give up her seat, but on the occasions she can, she does.

I'm just really saddened by it. The woman seemed very shocked as if she expected someone to offer her a seat, and kept shaking her head and sighing.

I'm dreading being old.

One of the best things about living in Moscow is that people on the metro are amazingly considerate to one another.

I have never seen an elderly person not inundated with offers of seats within seconds of boarding.

People always give up their seats for me and my child. Sometimes old women insist.

If people lose their footing and bang into other standers, no one gets the arse.

And people very delicately step around the fat stray dogs who sometimes lie stretched out fast asleep on the floor of Circle Line trains.

Nothing like the savagery I regularly witnessed in England.

Isn't this bystander effect, though? Because everyone knows lots of people could offer, no one feels it's their responsibility to do so. People aren't comparing their need to the elderly person's need, they are comparing their need to the need of all the others who are sitting down and not offering to help.

Asking one person or a small group for help shifts the focus to the needs of the elderly person and is much more likely to have a result.

You should.

I have SN, and some people offer, others don't. Sometimes standing is easier if train is packed and I'm only going 1 stop.

London can be a tough place.

I would have given up my seat and I'm in London but from Wales originally. I think saying it's a London thing is poor form and lazy. Most people are not 'from' Londond anyway!

At what stage do you consider elderly? I'm always aware of not wanting to offend people by assuming they are too 'old' iykwim?

I always give up my seat for kids under about ten. I hate to see the little things lurching about on the train.

I am happy to report I have never ever been in this situation, every bus and train etc I have ever been on where someone needed a seat, someone was on their feet pretty quick.

On the subject of children, I would much prefer little kids are sitting down, from about 7ish they are OK to stand but under that I give them priority for a seat. If in a crowd there was only one seat available for DS and I, I either sat with him on my lap or put him in the seat and stood myself.

Londoners were fantastic during my time there, always grabbing the front of the buggy going upstairs, always graciously offering seats when I was pregnant.

Teenage boys, that much maligned group have also in my experience been amongst the most kind/helpful.

Sometimes I think I inhabit a different world to lots of people on MN. Mine is happier.

Teenage boys, that much maligned group have also in my experience been amongst the most kind/helpful.

My mum, who is 70, was traveling alone at the time and has sight problems, tripped while boarding a full train and struggled to get up.

The only people who helped her were two teenage lads, who helped her up, gave her a seat, and chatted to her during the journey to make sure she was okay.

I'm always somewhat bemused by the percentage of people on these threads declaring that they'd always and instantly give up their seat for anyone that needed it, without asking. I commuted through London for three years while using a cane - it was 50-50 whether I'd be offered a seat. Best results were always found in targeting the person sat next to the door and asking directly. People have a lot on their minds, are stuck in a good book or bad newspaper, or aren't often paying attention to their surroundings - why the assumption that they should automatically be paying attention to me, or scrutinizing every person who gets on the train?

With that in mind, the tutting and passive-aggressive whinging would have pissed me off no end. If you need a seat, ask for a seat, don't just complain to air - it's rude.

I have also pretty much always seen people be offered seats on the tube. Happens a bit less often on bus.

People were also falling over themselves to offer me a seat on coach at Gatwick when I was holding small baby last Friday. That may be because lots of them saw a man shouting at me on the plane to 'shut the fucking baby up' and felt sorry for me though. Now he was a nasty man.

It is a huge mistake to huff and sigh, it makes people less likely. That sort of person is likely to be less than gracious when they are offered one. Much better to ask directly.

Binky Good on you for not punching the bloke in the nose. I'd have walloped the bugger!

Actually, this reminds me of something I have wondered about..

I was on a busy bus one day, every seat was taken and there were a few people standing. There was a woman with a baby in a buggy (which was parked in the wheelchair/buggy bay on the bus and she was having to stand near it. Just before she got off the bus, she addressed the whole bus, ranting about how appalling it was that no one had offered her a seat. She was young, no signs of a disability/appearing ill, the baby looked to be around 12 months so it can't have been due to her recently having given birth.

I was sitting at the back of the bus so even if I had offered her my seat, she would have had to sit quite some way from her child. However, I (and I think most people) just didn't understand why she felt she needed the seat more than anyone else. Obviously, if able-bodied people are sitting in the seats by the buggy/wheelchair bay and there are seats elsewhere, they should move to the vacant seats so that the mum/dad can sit down near the buggy but should they give up their seat and stand so that the parent with the buggy can sit down?

On these threads before I've become aware of issues I haven't been aware of e.g. having sufficient space to apply the breaks on the buggy etc but is there something we were (all) missing here about why she would need to be seated next to the buggy rather than standing?

Seats SHOULD be offered up to elderly people.

We always do, and my children have been raised to. God knows why so many people don't explain these basic manners to their kids, about consideration.

I thinks things are worse often in London. I remember working in London heavily pregnant and unable to find a seat on the tube.

fanjo I was already in tears because I'm terrified of flying and the baby was SCREAMING. I felt a huge surge of anger then cried more, I'm afraid.

Embarrassing. The attendants were lovely though, and upgraded me. Baby then slept most of the way.

IF I happen to see someone on the train that I feel needs a seat, then I'll get up, but I'm not going to sit and assess everyone who gets on and determine if they are more entitled to a seat than I am. I'm reading a book or studying if I'm on public transport. You need a seat? Ask away, and I'll move. But don't stand there tutting and because no one has managed to mentally catalog your ability to stand for the duration of the journey.

Just ASK FFS.

@ Lol just seen it was Glasgow. Oh well what can I say? Someone should have got up. My kids are taught this, well obviously they need to move for any adult but they would see me get up for elderly/pregnant.

Yes, but sometimes you don't notice older people if it's that crowded.

Public transport is a dog-eat-dog world and it would help if some people who are entitled to priority seats would remember that others are too and the rules encompass a fairly wide range of disabilities and conditions. I was once screamed at by an elderly woman because I was sitting in a priority seat. I was only 19 but had a broken foot which was quite visible - in plaster with crutches. I was also the only person in said seats - another five priority seats were free but she insisted that as I was young I had to give up my seat to her.

More recently, following a car crash this year, I had both arms in plaster and a neck brace. On the few occasions when taking the bus (usually to hospital) was absolutely unavoidable, I was constantly told that I didn't need a seat because my legs were not affected. Yes but I couldn't hold on and my needed some stability rather than being bumped and pushed around. Idiots.

Just yesterday I offered a seat to a woman who looked to be in her thirties but had a walking stick and was clearly struggling. She was extremely grateful and said it rarely happens which prompted another random stranger to shout to me "I bet you feel all smug now you've shown the rest of us up". Well yes, actually. I took up a standing position next to two boys of around 10-11 years old who were chatting about how awful it is that few people give up seats to those in need these days and how it was not how they were brought up but most of the general public don't really set a good example to others. Fab boys - their parents should be proud!

Able-bodied and currently healthy people should offer or give up seats to those less able to stand, yes.

It's not a blanket age issue tho. Many older people are perfectly fit and healthy, and many young people and children have disabilities.

I offer my seat to anyone who looks like they could use it, regardless of age. If they seem particularly frazzled or are carrying loads of bags. I also carry bags for people going up stairs etc if they have small kids with them or are just struggling. It's just being kind and friendly innit?

I'm pretty shocked that so many posters require that a frail,elderly person needs to ask for a seat before one is offered. That's not really what good manners, politeness and caring about people is all about is it?

Surely if we had more regular/longer public transport with more seating and more places to store buggies etc (in the case of buses), none of this would be an issue?

Rather than turning on various societal groups for being rude, why aren't people complaining more to the train/bus companies that pack us all in like sardines in the name of profit?

I think the high price for tickets contributes to this situation. Whilst I agree it's good manners to offer your seat if the cost of the ticket is up to 20% of your salary I wouldn't be rushing to give up my seat either.