Able-bodied people should offer their seat on a crowded train to elderly people, yes?

[LOLisNOTaPunctuationMark]

Am i alone in thinking this? After today, i feel like i am.

I went for the train home at 4.10pm. Just like every other day, the platform was swarming with people waiting to board. So on we all rushed when the train arrived. As usual, i found myself at the back of the mob queue, so had to stand as all seats were taken. (There's really no queue etiquette. Someone who had been waiting for 20 minutes doesn't get to go before someone who's just arrived for example.

Anyway, my train home is massive. It takes me about 90 secs to walk from the first to the last carriage, and that's with me walking quickly.

I found myself an inch of a handrail to hold onto next to the doors. I was in the smallest carriage. There's 6 tables with 6 chairs to a table (3 at each side of it). All seats were full (except a middle one at a back table). There was approx 12 people standing next and around me next to the door space.

In other words, it was packed.

Behind me, an elderly man and woman squeezed onto the train. The woman was really tiny and frail. She was huffing and sighing at there not being a seat. I pointed out the empty one at the back, but the elderly man was already making his way towards it.

After about a minute, the train starts. The woman was very unbalanced and staggered into people several times. She said very loudly how unfriendly our country is and how much nicer it is in Dublin. Then the elderly man shouts down that we are friendly in this country, just not on trains.

At the next stop, another five people squished inside. The woman was getting pushed into another man sitting at one of the front tables. he kept tutting loudly and finally snapped and asked her to watch herself.

All the while, the people at the tables were just staring blankly ahead, or immersed in their phones, and two people were looking at her and grinning.

Eventually, a woman offered her her seat because she was getting off at the next stop anyway.

Apart from the elderly woman and man in that carriage, no one else was elderly. I'm aware that some people may have had disabilities, but statistically it's unlikely that everyone sitting down had a disability/disorder/pregnancy etc.

I've always been brought up to offer my seat to an elderly person if somewhere is crowded, and i'm bringing my 5yo daughter up to do the same. She has a disability which sometimes means she can't always give up her seat, but on the occasions she can, she does.

I'm just really saddened by it. The woman seemed very shocked as if she expected someone to offer her a seat, and kept shaking her head and sighing.

I'm dreading being old.

I do always enjoy it when selfish fucks pretend the rest of us must be equally selfish. If they only looked up, perhaps they would feel a little shame seeing people giving up their seats.

The other week a man who must have been 70 or more gave up his seat for me. I didn't want to take it, but a teenager immediately got up, grabbed at his mates to make them get up, and let us both sit down along with others.

Many people are basically kind, and not selfish arseholes.

*that = they

mura - no, still not clear. Any reason you can't give up your seat? Or any reason why other people entitled to one shouldn't have it?

HMC - yes of course I do, I'm not entirely awful, honest! I just put a lot of effort into making this as easy for myself as I can, and it's one I try not to budge on.

That's not to say I won't when I view it necessary, but just having been on the planet longer doesn't count.

And the priority seats are there for this, I don't sit there.

I give up my seat to those in need.

I have gave up my seat several times to the elderly and disabled, even when heavily pregnant. Once, an elderly gent seemed really affronted that at 7 months pregnant I would offer him the seat - think it made him feel old.

I once also had an elderly man shout at me for not offering my seat. I've visually impaired and hadn't seen him. But since he was so rude I wouldn't give him the seat. I'm sorry, but manners don't cost a thing. If he would have said kindly 'Sorry young lady, I was just wondering can I have your seat? These legs aren't as steady as they used to be' or something like that, I'd have gladly given up my place, no problem.

I also remember once there was this man who must've been last 40s early 50s who had a stick. I was sitting with my partner on the bus and he and I are both VI, him much more so than myself [completely blind, but both registered blind]. One minute I could hear him talking (the other man) but wasn't sure what he was saying as I had the headphone in and couldn't hear all that much due to the loud and creaky old double dekker.

Anyway this bloke starts shouting and shoving his face in my face. Then the driver got up and said we were ignorant. I kindly pointed out that yes he was entitled to these seats but remember we had just got on with our disabled passes not long ago, so didn't it occur to him that we might not be able to see very well, especially with the long cane?

They were both rude and I honestly could've slapped the bloke, it irritated me so much.

I hate it when people are blatantly rude and don't offer a seat to someone in need, but the person in need should not have a shitty attitude. The world doesn't owe them a favour.

I gave up my seat for old people when I was pregnant. Young-ish men all around me would look, look slightly embarrassed, but then go back to looking at their phones.

Not making a generalisation really, but my experience tells me that an AWFUL lot of people are incredibly selfish.

If someone asks, I'll do it, of course.

If they don't ask, then that's their issue, surely.

murasaki figuring out where the doors are never works either. Because you still have to move back a bit to let current passengers out onto the platform before new passengers can bustle their way in.

And once all the old passengers are out, the new ones elbow their way inside to ensure they get dibs on whatever seats are available (or the best standing positions). So in reality, it's always the ones who are happy to push, shove, elbow people who get on first.While the patient and non-violent people are made to stand without even having anything to hold on to.

Most people wouldn't ask Murasaki because they are too well mannered to do so

Sadly I had a similar experience a couple of weeks ago when an elderly lady got onto a busy bus I was on and not one person on the priority seats gave up their seat for her. I was towards the back, heavily pregnant and gave her mine - no one batted an eyelid that i was then left standing.

(I'm aware this sounds martyrish, I don't mean it to. I will always happily give up my seat to anyone who needs it more than I do)

Well in which case they can bask in the warm glow of their self righteousness and moral superiority. If they asked, they'd get a seat.

I'm not looking round the carriage to see who to offer to, sorry. I'm glad you are all so self sacrificing.

I would offer my seat but am often shocked at home rude and "entitled" old people can be. They are meant to be setting a good example to the young. You don't automatically become entitled to stuff just because you have lived a long time - it's like the sense of entitlement just because you have bred.

Oh, I see, murasaki, you're changing your story now.

Well, at least that indicates you are decently ashamed for not having said before you'd get up for someone.

If they asked. I didn't actually say I wouldn't, just that I wouldn't offer.

Remember you will be old one day ... what goes around comes around ...

I don't agree you should automatically respect someone when you are a grown adult, that's just ridiculous.

Just because someone is old, doesn't mean I respect them. But if someone is old and frail, I don't want them to suffer or to be made uncomfortable. That's my humanity, not because they deserve me to idolise them.

Yup, this is very true.

I always give up my seat but the other day was on the bus and an elderly lady came on.

She was so abusive to me despite not knowing that I had just come out of hospital and was really weak and even had a sick bowl in my bag in case of an emergency (nothing contagious I promise).

I was so weak and sat there sweating with a blinding headache. If I had got up I would probably have fainted.

I would have got a cab but only had my Oyster card on me as was taken in in an emergency and had no money or bank card and no-one to bring them to me.

So there are times when younger people cannot move but it was the fact that she singled me out to shout at that got me. I was not the only person sitting on the bus.

Sharpkat - that sounds like an unpleasant experience. Did you manage to explain to her why you needed to sit? - that might have caused her to reflect on not being so adversarial in future

Both of my teens would have given up their seats or someone else to let the old woman sit down. They are used to looking out for people because I am disabled. DS2 in particular goes out of his way to help people, especially the old, he'll load their shopping into their cars, push their trolleys back to their car or back to the trolley park.

I got on to a bus at Gatwick Airport on my crutches. All the seats were taken up with parents on one and a small child, or teen next to them. Not one person offered me a seat, so DH stood at the front and shouted up the bus "who is going to stand, or sit a child on their lap so my disabled wife can sit down?" Still no-one offered, so the bus driver intervened and one man grudgingly gave me his seat. It was absolutely shameful.

I give up my seat readily, always have done, thanks to the teachings of my lovely old primary school headmaster. He was and still is, a gentleman.

I offered my seat to an elderly lady recently, which she took without acknowledgement. I had to leave my lovely Lakeland brolly and shopping on the rack beside it. The bus got ever busier and I found myself stood at the back as the number of passengers standing increased.

I was idly glancing out of the window when the bus stopped. The same elderly lady had taken my brolly because it had started to pelt rain.

Of course, MrsdeV. Excuse me. I was thinking of people (whom I know) who think it's unfair that a three-year-old sits down.

I didn't mean to be rude.

I Facebooked a live incident where an elderly couple with booked seats weren't able to sit in them because young men were in them and no one had the balls to tell them to shove off. The woman got a free seat but the man stood because a middle aged man tried to give up his seat for him and the elderly man had too much pride to allow it (very sweet exchange between them). The couple were upset they couldn't sit together. I was 7 months pregnant at the time and I was squashed in a window table seat or I would have stood up and asked the young men to move. So I've seen it with my own eyes.

I totally agree with you OP.

We went to London last week and I was shocked at how rude and "dog eat dog" everyone is, especially on the tube. I know they probably have to be ruthless, but it wasn't a pretty sight. Since we moved away from the south east I don't go to the capital much and I'm so glad I don't now.