to wonder about the definition of rape

[Justforlaughs]

Partly inspired by the thread about rape being common, I was wondering what people class as rape. Two examples, that I would be interested in your views on. Would either/ both of these class as rape or not.

1. Girl goes to stay at friends house, gets drunk. Friend goes to bed. Girl goes to bathroom, friends DP comes in and wants to have sex. Girl doesn't want to but being very drunk doesn't want to wake her friend up so doesn't scream or fight, just says no repeatedly. She does mean, no, but they have sex anyway.

2)Girl goes to a house party, gets drunk. Goes to bed with her boyfriend and passes out. Wakes up in the same bed, no sign of boyfriend but there are 3 other boys/ men in the bed with her. They say that they all had sex with her when she was out cold. She doesn't remember anything, but they say that she didn't protest.

So what does the mumsnet jury think?

Is this a joke? Both are rape.

Yeup, all those are rape. Why would they not be?

Legally, morally, any way at all they are both very clearly rape.

No consent = rape

Both are rape

1. She said no, repeatedly

2. She was incapable of protesting, as she was completely unaware of what was happening. She didn't consent or have a choice.

Eh? Both are of course rape.

:-( did this happen to you, OP?

You must be joking OP? They are obviously both rape as there was no consent in either situation.

It's widely accepted that if you're clearly unable to consent then it's rape.

I'm sure this is a lovely thread to read for those who've been unfortunate enough to have been raped whilst drunk/drugged etc

On what planet are they not rape? Jesus. Has this happened to you? Are you ok?

Both most definitely gruesome examples of rape!!!

It isn't difficult to underdand.

I don't usually open with this question, but I feel I have no choice.

Are you stupid?

They are both rape.

both are rape .

How could it not be? Are you asking because this happened to you? Because if it did both scenarios are rape

Really, neither even remotely in any sort of grey area. Both rape.

If anyone tries to pretend otherwise they are idiots

I'm fine now, but both of these happened to me (a long time ago) and I've never really thought that it was (despite how I felt) probably because neither did anyone else. I just wondered whether I had BU to feel that way. It's quite nice to be told, for the first time ever, that IWBU. I don't drink now, btw!

I hope you are okay, OP. If this happened to a friend or daughter of yours then you need to let them know that it is not their fault and that it is indeed rape and see what they want to do next. If it happened to you then you too need some reassurance (and possibly medical advice). Is there anyone you can confide in?

I hope you have your answer by now.

Poor you. Of course they were both rape. have you never told anyone before? That's not so unusual but still so very sad.

I'm so sorry this happened to you

I unfortunately know hundreds of women this has happened to.

I did wonder. I'm so sorry you went through that with no support.

Sorry for my question then OP.

Of course it was rape.

I hope you're getting some help.

Oh, so sorry to hear that

Well it was, both times. Some people do hold the view that it isn't, wrongly, but they also tend to be people that have never experienced it so have no idea how violated it makes you feel, even if you weren't screaming/crying like 'in the movies' or how you imagine you would.

I'm really sorry this has happened to you. Both are rape.

I'm very sorry this happened to you, but yes, they were both rape. I think sometimes its easier to think its not, iyswim? So that you don't have to deal with it.

By the way, you say you don't drink now - please don't think that by being drunk you in any way deserved/asked for it. Do you think talking to someone irl would help?

Thank You for your answers, 99% of the time I am fine, just occasionally something will happen to spark it in my mind again.