A child has urinated all over ds.

[PrammyMammy]

I'm not sure if I am over reacting or not.
Ds is 5 and in primary one. The boy in question is also 5 and in the same class as ds.

Firstly in February I had a letter sent home saying my ds was outside the toilet cubicle with his pants down and had lost 'Golden time' because of this. I asked him about it and his reason was that he was in the toilet doing a poo and the boy pushed him off the seat and told him he was to use another toilet.
When I called the school with that story they said that isn't what they had heard and as far as they knew that isn't what happened.
So, today at my work I got a call.
Ds has been involved in an insistent, he was sitting on the toilet and another boy opened the door, entered and wee'd all over him. He has been changed, is no longer upset and the other boy's parents have been called.

At first I thought that the school had dealt with it well and appropriately, until I got my son off the school bus and he had an entire change of clothes, his own clothes in a bag, completely soaking wet, I'm talking woollen jumper, trousers, poloshirt, vest and pants, all soaking. This boy had done a full wee on him.
I asked him about it, and it turns out it was the same boy who pushed him off the toilet in February.
About ten minutes later the school called me. I expected it to be about the insistent. It was his teacher asking me for my permission to sent ds to speech and language therapy. I brought up that it was the same boy who they said hadn't pushed ds off the toilet before and again she said 'no that didn't happen as far as we are aware'.

I doubt my son has made up that he was pushed off a toilet seat by the same boy who has wee'd all over him a month later.
I don't know if I should meet with the school or leave it at this. I mean there is nothing else that can be done about today, but if this is an on going thing then I'd like them to realise it and not just dismiss me.
What would you do?

I agree with Snotmereally. This has flagged up potentially serious issues if a child does not realise that urinating on another child is totally unacceptable.

I think you need to take this further. Keep taking it further until you are listened to. This is not acceptable and it is not two children mucking around.

I agree with please

Kids get mixed up over who's Turn it is or who had what first, they don't get mixed up between a child and a toilet. No wonder its escalated to pissing on people if they are going to make excuses for him like that.

There may or may not be something wrong with wee child but for the love of god they need to figure out what it is and support him appropriately and not make excuses!!! Preferably before he does something worse or gets hurt himself!

Been following this from the beginning.

1. Op, please NEVER speak to the parent. Let the school deal with it.
2. The school doesn't seem to be REALLY dealing with it. There was alot you weren't told. Head is now dismissive. "ooooh I've never seen anything like this", ohh purrlease. Reeks of inexperience. Our head, would have nipped this in the bud, instantly. I am most concerned, I have to say. Wish you luck.

Agree with Oblomov that school are not dealing with this appropriately. It is most definitely not normal behaviour for a 5 year old to wee all over another child or to pull him out of toilet. Even worse that ignorant school staff then punished your DS in the earlier incident. If this were my DC I would be insisting the school treat it more seriously or report it eg to Ofsted as a safeguarding issue that the school has not dealt with satisfactorily.

Yes, i would be upset that they are not dealing with it -

Two days later, the boy is still being aggressive to ops boy.
They framed it as a 'clash' it doesn't sound like it
They said there were incidents yet hadn't informed op
She had to chase them for the meeting to discuss it
Poor kid was punished for having his pants down - first incident.

Do follow it up, they sound incompetent.

I'd go in, snow or no snow (unless it's really gonna be a safety hazard, you can't really kick some backside if ya injured), and refuse to leave until someone sorts it, and if they call the police you report the incident to them, sod the fact he's 5, even with SN, if he had walked past the urinals he knew exactly what he was doing. The school are trying to brush it under the carpet if i understand rightly they have only just opened so they will want a good reputation so will try and hide a bullying case (won't look good on them). The first incident should not be ignored and the school has no right to ignore your son. my DD is 3 and she knows that wee and poo go in the toilet/potty.

There's something that makes me very uneasy here.
I sympathise with the head's bereavement but this should not be your problem.
I think I would want social services or an educational psychologist to take a look at it.
What about the parent governor ?

I agree with Conference, Op. There si something here, I am not entirely sure what, I can not put my finger on it, but there is something seriously wrong here.
I hope you have the courage and strength to hold firm and not be faffed off.
I speak by someone who had a child, who , it tuned out has Aspergers, but was told by school repeatedly that there was nothing wrong, as if I had munchausen's and was making it all up. And even now, I have zero support.
Which could indeed colour my judgement !!

But there is something....has seriously made me very very very uncomfortable.

And i am sure i am not alone in this, right posters ?

God, Op, I feel really sorry for you. Take our strength. And don't be dismissed.

Perhaps I should say that I have some year's experience of pastoral care and there is something wrong here which needs investigating.

Right ob

It is very sinister.

I have heard that SN can have continence issues but this is not a kid soiling himself or struggling with using school toilets. It's a kid deliberately pissing on another child. It's just so creepy and abnormal.

No you're not alone Ob. and I am really sorry to hear that you're not getting any support with ds (is it your lovely ds1?)

It sounds like this school is completely out of its depth

Rooney, I too have seen your posts. Maybe I can be of some help to you.
But now is not the time , for my trifles.

But I hope Op gets sorted. We all here, are all unanimous in our feelings of it not be right, on Mn, so I hope Op realsies, that she has our support here.

Hello have just read the entire thread and wanted to say the whole thing sounds horrible. It definately from what op has said sounds like bullying to the extreme

If that had been my dd I would have gone ballistic, your poor ds.

I would be thinking about moving schools tbh because the thought of wee boy being around your son would stress me out too much.

I think you should move your son to another school if possible.

I have had experience of P1 bullying and I thought children of this age were not capable of this and put up with it for too long. Move him now before he becomes too traumatised, you will spend the next few years trying to deal with this if you don't.

Oh and don't discuss your plans with the school if you decide to move him.

Contact the head of the school you want him to go to, secure a place and just remove him. Don't make any mention of bullying if you can help it, I did not want anything negative on my child's records so said I was removing for family reasons.

My child has had a perfectly straightforward and happy school life after removal from a school where she had 2 years of hell at the hands of a bully.

It is sinister. If the school think it was just an error judgement, then that is v worrying. Urinating on other children is a classic sadistic thing. It's something that is often present in cases of extreme child-on-child attacks (including poor Jamie Bulger). OP, am not trying to say this boy is going to kill your son, don't worry, I am just trying to point out that this factor, along with all the other incidents, most of which sound very sly, as though Wee Boy knows he can pass them off as poorly-judged but innocent hijinx, point to a fairly calculated bullying focus on your son. The stuff Wee Boy is doing also appear to be calculated to be able to pass as one-offs and unconnected.

Obviously, I don't think he's putting this level of sophisticated effort into it, but there is clearly something deeply wrong with the boy that's made him so efficiently abusive at such a young age.

Jesus, I missed the bit where op's DS was punished after the first incident - wtf?? The poor little sod

I agree, there is no way this was an isolated mistake. Op, please kick up a fuss about the most recent note. The fact that they are still classing these incidents as rough play and that the playground assistants STILL have not been informed about the issues between these two boys just proves to me they are still not grasping the magnitude of it!

I can't even get ds up to bed tonight. He has clung to me since dinner.
He is beside me but practically on me the now. Dd has been asleep since the back of 7, which is ds usual bed time.
He has been asleep and when I move him he is crying saying he wants me and wants to stay with me. He said I'm nice and hot so he wants to cuddle me. It's too dark and cold in his room, it's not. The hall light is always on as well as a reading lamp in his room and it is so warm upstairs. He screamed for ages upstairs so he's back down, again,before dd waked up.
I'm trying to stay calm and positive really I am but I'm sitting here and he is wrapped around my hip half asleep and it's taking me everything not to scream.
I'm glad I decided to post, so glad.

Aw your poor ds :(

It's all getting to him now by sound of it. He's put up with so much :(

I think I would keep him at home tomorrow if you can.

Have a duvet day, and give him a bit of time.

It sounds to me as though the school really aren't dealing with it. A one-off peeing incident is bad enough, but urinating on someone as part of a whole series of incidents is a different matter entirely. It indicates a massive escalation of behaviour and (as someone said above) is a real controlling, dominating action which sounds to me as though it has its roots in a child being very troubled . But as sorry as I feel for the troubled child, your son should not be taking the flack for it - and the school treating them as "equal" in today's incident is appalling.

After the urinating incident there should be no doubt who the attacker is, and someone who knows about the history should be watching the boy at break time, not just a dinner lady who probably hasn't been told about any earlier incidents, so will just think it was "rough play".

MaryZ has it right. Duvet day tomorrow and, as others have said, I would seriously consider moving him. The school simply arent joining the dots and taking it seriously enough. I reckon you will have him in your bed with you tonight and that's no bad thing really - snuggling up with mum following such a ghastly time is just what the doctor ordered.

I have read this thread with a sense of mounting horror. You are doing really well, OP and I hope you continue to feel strong and make a fuss. I am sorry for the wee boy - there is some serious disturbance there, but your ds shouldnt have to be on the receiving end.

Take heart OP, we are all thinking of you and hoping and hoping it all comes right in the end.

Oh bless him! Another vote for keeping him home tomorrow if you can. Your child is being bullied and the school seem to be doing sweet FA about it!
I'm sorry but they have not done enough! Every 'action' they have taken has infact been done with both boys further implying that their attitude is more 'they don't get on' rather than your DS being the victim here.

OP - you mentioned in a post earlier today that you could send your DS to another school. I'd phone them tomorrow morning to see if they have a place. If your DS knows other children from the school nursery he could settle in easily. It doesn't sound from what happened at school today that the present school have or are going to deal with this other child effectively, even after the urinating incident and the meetings you've had with the head teacher.

If the other school say they don't have any places you could contact the Education Department at your Local Authority, explain what has happened and say that you are looking for a place at that school due to extreme bullying. If that doesn't work I'd contact your MP and MSP for help. It is amazing the effect that a letter from one of them can have.

Good luck.

I was going to ask you how your son is when dropped at school in the mornings......does he cry or run into the classroom happily?

If he were my boy, I would not be sending him back there. I would remove him and give him a little break, then send him to the new school starting after Easter.

I was bullied at school and can still vividly remember the feelings now. It stays with you.