A child has urinated all over ds.

[PrammyMammy]

I'm not sure if I am over reacting or not.
Ds is 5 and in primary one. The boy in question is also 5 and in the same class as ds.

Firstly in February I had a letter sent home saying my ds was outside the toilet cubicle with his pants down and had lost 'Golden time' because of this. I asked him about it and his reason was that he was in the toilet doing a poo and the boy pushed him off the seat and told him he was to use another toilet.
When I called the school with that story they said that isn't what they had heard and as far as they knew that isn't what happened.
So, today at my work I got a call.
Ds has been involved in an insistent, he was sitting on the toilet and another boy opened the door, entered and wee'd all over him. He has been changed, is no longer upset and the other boy's parents have been called.

At first I thought that the school had dealt with it well and appropriately, until I got my son off the school bus and he had an entire change of clothes, his own clothes in a bag, completely soaking wet, I'm talking woollen jumper, trousers, poloshirt, vest and pants, all soaking. This boy had done a full wee on him.
I asked him about it, and it turns out it was the same boy who pushed him off the toilet in February.
About ten minutes later the school called me. I expected it to be about the insistent. It was his teacher asking me for my permission to sent ds to speech and language therapy. I brought up that it was the same boy who they said hadn't pushed ds off the toilet before and again she said 'no that didn't happen as far as we are aware'.

I doubt my son has made up that he was pushed off a toilet seat by the same boy who has wee'd all over him a month later.
I don't know if I should meet with the school or leave it at this. I mean there is nothing else that can be done about today, but if this is an on going thing then I'd like them to realise it and not just dismiss me.
What would you do?

[GingerBlondecat]

(((((((((((((((soft soft Warm Hugs)))))))))))) to your DS.

Please Don't ever give up till you get to the bottom of this.

My DD was bullied from Early Kindy right through Primary, until we managed to finally Change schools. small twon, no other choice.

the teachers (multi of them) all tried to excuse that DD needed to be more vocal (she was in a speech program) And the Bullies ............ Well, they didn't even agree that they wee bullies, One was the Teachers own child

[GooseyLoosey]

Agree with the others to put any complaint in writing and if no response is forthcomming, consider cc'ing it to the board of governors.

My (sadly extensive) experience of bullying is that if the school has a strong head it will stop and be dealt with. If the school has a head who is confrontation averse and weak, it may never stop.

Soup - if this was an isolated incident I would agree that the school have done what they can. My concern here is that they are refusing to even consider that it is part of a wider pattern of behaviour, even though the OP has already raised a similar incident with them.

[bangwhizz]

Good luck today.Do not let them fob you off!

[SoupDreggon]

But what more should they do now? They have spoken to his parent and will be accompanying him to the toilet. He is five. Obviously he should know better but I honestly don't see what more the school are meant to be doing.

They could well be doing more in conjunction with the parents but this is none of the OPs business.

I assume that the first incident is a case of one child's word against another with no witnesses or evidence which is why it is being publicly discounted.

This is two incidents in 6 months. Hardly sustained bullying or "evil" behaviour.

I just think there is a fair bit of over reacting on this thread and it needs to be seen how the supervision pans out.

[LibertineLover]

It's worth investigating though soup the school so far are refusing to accept there's a link between incident one and two, if it were your child would you be so sure there was no wider problem?

[saintlyjimjams]

What soupy said.

[GooseyLoosey]

She has also said that this child is telling other children not to play with her son.

If there is a sustained pattern of behaviour, the school need to recognise it as such - maybe have some class discussions about bullying and maybe talk to both boys together about what the problem is.

I know they are only 5 but that does not mean that nothing should be done. If nothing is done at 5, it may carry on at 6, 7 and 8. It may be much more straight forward to deal with things now before it becomes almost habituated and other children join in (which the boy is encouraging them to do).

[NuhichNuhaymuh]

Is the child being accompanied to the toilets and his parents told? I thought was something said by someone here as what should happen, rather than by the OP as what has happened?

Unless I've missed something (it's possible) nothing other than three OPs son being changed has happened.

[saintlyjimjams]

The OP said a few post in They have contacted the wee boys parents and said he won't be going to the toilet unsupervised from now

[Owllady]

Due to confidentiality reasons, no-one on this thread will know why the 5 year old did this to the other 5 year old but I think we can all use our imaginations and to be honest, bullying is not the first thing that comes to mine. It's not nice for the poor boy who got weed on and the school have obviously not been managing the pupils behaviour properly if this was allowed to happen but hopefully the school can be reassuring and put measures in place to support its pupils and keep them safe as they have a duty of care to do so. Therefore everyone is happy.

[DoubleLifeIsALifeHalved]

Good luck today OP, I hope they don't fob you off again. It's the way they are minimising it, refusing to discuss or investigate further and being quite unpleasant in the way they are dealing with you... It doesn't matter what other things are going on behind the scenes, all this is not ok!

[MildDrPepperAddiction]

Go to the board of governors and advise that the head teacher has been dismissive of the incidents.

Your poor DS. I hope he is feeling ok now. It sounds like that other boy has some serious issues that need to be addressed ASAP.

I hope you get the resolution you want to this.

[Inertia]

Your poor little boy, no wonder you are upset.

If there is an underlying reason why the other boy is behaving like this, then it could well fall under the child protection remit and the school wouldn't disclose this to you, nor would they discuss any SN the boy might have. That said, the school has a responsibility to safeguard all children, and they clearly need to review procedures here.

I would put in writing to the Head , governors and LA exactly what your concerns are, outlining what your son and school staff have told you and asking for a written response about their safeguaring procedures. If the other boy does have other issues which require support, then the school needs to put those in place.

[SoupDreggon]

the head teacher has been dismissive of the incidents.

Is speaking to the boy's parents and ensuring he is supervised in the toilets being "dismissive"?

[NuhichNuhaymuh]

Ah okay I missed that saintlyjimjams so the school has taken action. That makes it less outrageous than if no action being taken.

Who knows what drives a 5 year old to urinate on another child. You'd dread to think. However the OPs child deserves to go to school without the risk of such upsetting incidents

[Crawling]

While I feel for the op it must have been awful for your ds, im more concerned about the boy it seems rather worrying that he thinks its okay to pee on someone.

[PrammyMammy]

I replied earlier and can't see it now. So I'm not sure if I actually posted it properly.

I seen the school today.
Turns out a lot has been going on tht I'm in aware off.
The wee boy and ds are in the same class but need to be separate at breaks and lunch times because they clash.
There have been a fair few more mishaps over 6m as it turns out and as far as this one is concerned I am happy with how they have dealt with it BUT I feel more could have been done over all, for example, I feel I should have known about this which has been on going since January.
My sons jacket hood was ripped off by the same boy, he has asked other kids not to play with ds, he has encouraged boys to knock ds over, the head teacher had to stop him throwing food at ds in the lunch hall, after that had been separated.
She says the boys were friends they now just clash off each other.

She was very apologetic and said she had never witnessed anything like this before, she wasn't in yesterday but if she was ds would have been sent home.

I'm wondering if it would be a good idea to speak to the boys mum? I have her number saved from ds birthday party. Just so that there is no awkwardness on Thursday at parents evening? Just to see if we can work together in anyway. Or is that silly?
I just think ds and the boy will probably have to deal with each other for the next 11 years at least so it would be best if they could be friends

[YouTheCat]

Don't approach the other parent. I'd reckon they'd get quite defensive about it. Let school deal with it. At least they are aware of what is going on.

[MaryZeZJezuzIzntZombiedYet]

No, don't speak to the boy's mum.

Really don't. Either the boy is doing this on purpose, in which case there isn't much she can do about it from home - it is up to the school to watch him in school and to keep her updated.

Or the boy is really troubled, and having a conversation with you about it won't help - again the school need to help her to get help for him.

Or (and this is a real possibility) she will get all defensive and start accusing your son of starting it, or dismiss it with "boys will be boys" or deny all knowledge.

Make sure that you talk to your son, try to find out (subtly) a little more about what is going on. If you think it is bullying pure and simply, keep on the school's back about it. If you think it's a clash of personalities and they may both be awful to each other (though I think urinating on a boy is extraordinary) then a few words to your son about staying away and not winding him up may be worthwhile. And if this is the case it might be worth trying to get them together away from school and see how they get on.

But be careful - you don't want your son to think you blame him for being a target, or he might stop telling you what is going on.

I would also keep a diary, and have another meeting with the school very soon to see what measures are being taken. If there are only 7 boys in the class, keeping them apart at all times will be difficult.

[PrammyMammy]

I have another meeting on the morning of the 28th. The school sorted all that out today thankfully. They do actually appear to be helping i just wish I'd have known a lot of the things I found out today. The little boy sounds angry (that's just my opinion though). I'm feeling better after the meeting.
I won't speak to his mum then. I was just thinking if it was my ds I would have marched him to the door to apologise ( I think) but I totally agree that could stir things up.

[MaryZeZJezuzIzntZombiedYet]

She may approach you.

I used to try to talk to people if ds (he has Aspgerger's) was fighting with their children. Most people were understanding, some were pretty obnoxious about it.

If she does approach you, don't say "oh it's fine", do say that you and your son were very upset by it, but you are happy to work together to try to sort it out.

[shewhowines]

It's the lack of acknowledgement about the first incident that would infuriate me. It's good that they are dealing with it, but you should have been informed at a much earlier stage than this,especially in view of the first incident.

[nannyof3]

Ur poor son....

But .... I have major concerns about this other child...

Is it a mainstream school?