A child has urinated all over ds.

[PrammyMammy]

I'm not sure if I am over reacting or not.
Ds is 5 and in primary one. The boy in question is also 5 and in the same class as ds.

Firstly in February I had a letter sent home saying my ds was outside the toilet cubicle with his pants down and had lost 'Golden time' because of this. I asked him about it and his reason was that he was in the toilet doing a poo and the boy pushed him off the seat and told him he was to use another toilet.
When I called the school with that story they said that isn't what they had heard and as far as they knew that isn't what happened.
So, today at my work I got a call.
Ds has been involved in an insistent, he was sitting on the toilet and another boy opened the door, entered and wee'd all over him. He has been changed, is no longer upset and the other boy's parents have been called.

At first I thought that the school had dealt with it well and appropriately, until I got my son off the school bus and he had an entire change of clothes, his own clothes in a bag, completely soaking wet, I'm talking woollen jumper, trousers, poloshirt, vest and pants, all soaking. This boy had done a full wee on him.
I asked him about it, and it turns out it was the same boy who pushed him off the toilet in February.
About ten minutes later the school called me. I expected it to be about the insistent. It was his teacher asking me for my permission to sent ds to speech and language therapy. I brought up that it was the same boy who they said hadn't pushed ds off the toilet before and again she said 'no that didn't happen as far as we are aware'.

I doubt my son has made up that he was pushed off a toilet seat by the same boy who has wee'd all over him a month later.
I don't know if I should meet with the school or leave it at this. I mean there is nothing else that can be done about today, but if this is an on going thing then I'd like them to realise it and not just dismiss me.
What would you do?

[bringbacksideburns]

'She says the boys were friends they now just clash off each other.' - doesn't sound like it to me, really. What does your son say about this boy? Is he concerned he may be targeting him and picking on him specifically or is he quite happy to go into school?

If it's quite a small school it will be hard for him to avoid the lad.
I think if there are any further incidences i would be looking at another school. It would be quite easy for him to adjust at his age. I have never heard of anything like this before. I would be very concerned.

[cjel]

Glad I'm not the only one who was staggered by 'black children being invisible'.!!! I would ring Child protection services myself to report this as it is worrying behaviour. Its not to get child in trouble but just to make sure hes ok. Child protection build pictures and need all the puzzle pieces.

[Vicky2011]

I know this isn't being helpful but my son would not be returning to that school. Nothing you have said makes me think the Head appreciates how serious it is. Speak to the County and if at all possible getting him moved to a better established school

[Wheresmycaffeinedrip]

It's beyond disgusting. I have never heard of or met a child who even at their worst behaviour standard , had ever or would ever even contemplate urinating on another person. I cannot believe the head has taken it so lightly. I thought that kinda stuff went on in prisons , not primary school. Shocking!!

Or maybe we need to hand out glow sticks so all the black kids r seen

[cloutiedumpling]

It might not be easy for the OP to send her DS to another school. She mentions that her son gets a school bus. In Scotland this would indicate that she doesn't live in an urban area and so it may be difficult for her to arrange drop offs and pick ups at another school.

I think it can be really difficult to deal with this sort of thing when you are not at the school for drop offs and pick ups. I'm not criticising working parents, I am one. I just don't think that a lot of schools are good at communicating with working parents. After an incident like this though I'd set up regular meetings with the teacher, perhaps every fortnight, so that things could be discussed then. It'd also be a good idea OP to try to strengthen good relationships between your DS and other kids in the school. Would you be able to set up playdates? IME bullies are less likely to target a child if they are part of a larger group. It'd also give you a chance (hopefully) to get to know some of the parents. It can be hard to keep up with what is happening at school when you are a working parent (Again, I'm not criticising working parents. I am one). I've found that a friend who is at the schools most days is invaluable at keeping me up to date with last minute changes to organised activities etc. She would also tell me if she saw any suggestion of bullying in the playground either before or after school. You might also get a feel from other parents of whether or not this boy is targeting other kids. I'm not suggesting starting a witch hunt. You can easily have a quiet word with people without starting a witch hunt. I think teachers can try to fob parents off who are concerned about the safety of their kids when they are dealing with them one at a time. It is harder for them to do so when the parents can say that they are concerned that their child is at risk of harm from child x because they are aware of a number of incidents involving that child at school, not just the incidents involving their own kid. Through this pressure, the other child could get any additional needs that he has met by the school.

[PrammyMammy]

Hi! Just in from work and catching up
It was the assistant head teacher who went into the toilet on Monday. Both the assistant head and the head teacher were in the meeting I had yesterday.
The head teacher lost her husband a few months ago so the assistant head has taken on her role quite a lot of the time. Actually the head teacher herself joked yesterday that some of the kids think she is a visitor or the pe teacher.

I'm not sure, I can't find the original post where someone says something about seeing black kids in the dark? Ds isn't black, the school uniform is though...

Ds gets the school bus to school yeah BUT he can also get the school bus to another school I suppose. This is something I am looking into and have discussed with my husband already. The next catholic school (where he went to nursery) is probably the same distance away tbh. He went to the new school because it's in our catchment area.
I'm putting in for my driving lesson within the next fortnight anyway so I will be more involved in the school pick up run very soon hopefully!
I start work at 7am so my husband is in charge in the mornings.

[mungotracy]

Its difficult but i think you may be expecting too much.

The school caught the child responsible for the incident you know is true. They called his parents. They changed your child. What else do you actually expect? What could they do?

they cant pillory the other child for an incident of which they have no proof in february? They HAVE punished the child for this incident. A school cannot start disciplining children on incidents of hearsay. the incident is being dealt with and the way that child is being handled is confidential and not your business. If something happens again you might have a point if they haven't addressed it.

The school has to be fair in regards to the alleged february incident. How was the other child in a cubicle with your child in the first instance. Why did leaving the cubicle prevent your child from pulling its pants up?

How would you react if the school started to deal with your son where they had no evidence? they have to react in the same way to all parents....

[PrammyMammy]

Hey mungo. I answered the questions you asked before. But I appreciate your point. I agree that there wasn't much more they could have done on Monday except send my son home to be bathed.

There were a lot more incidents brought up yesterday at the meeting also x

[cloutiedumpling]

It sounds as though the trouble happens at times when the kids are alone outside of the classroom - the OP has mentioned lunchtimes, playtimes and the toilet area. Could the school allocate a classroom assistant to keep an eye on the P1 boys at playtimes and lunchtimes? The OP has already said that the class teacher will not allow the two boys to go to the toilet at the same time. I am not a teacher so I don't know what could reasonably be done with this age group. I just think it is concerning that the behaviour has been escalating over the last few months but the school didn't see fit to tell the OP until the other kid had urinated all over her DS.

[PrammyMammy]

The boys are kept separated at lunch time I found out yesterday, I didn't know anything about that.
There are toilet patrols at lunch and break time which will hopefully help but I don't think they can really do much more, I told ds if he sees the lad going to the toilet to stay away, and if the boy enters while he is in to leave as soon as possible. The school have also spoken to both boys about that. Ds has also been told to tell an adult straight away if anything happens in the toilet.

[Finola1step]

Am coming late to this thread but the one thing that doesn't quite add up is this clash of personalities description. Has your son done or said anything to the other boy. If it really is a clash as the school are maintaining, then that would suggest that both boys give as good as they get. But from your descriptions, OP that doesn't sound as though that is the situation.

Are the boys being separated because the other boy is targeting your son? If that is the case, then this is bullying rather than a clash of personalities. The school should then be implementing their anti bullying policy and procedures.

It's a new school. I would be questioning whether their anti bullying procedures are appropriate and robust enough to deal with this situation. I don't wont to worry you OP but, if it is targeted behaviour designed to upset (and yes five year olds are capable of this), this could be a long road. If the school are not prepared to see it for what it is, then they can't begin to deal with it properly. I wish you luck OP.

[cumfy]

I think the wee boy should have to ask each time he uses the loo.
Staff can then check DS is not there.

[Flojobunny]

What Finola said, the picture here is unclear. Is your boy usually giving as good as he gets? Is he usually the instigator? Or is he being bullied?

[PrammyMammy]

It is so unclear for me also.
As far as I'm aware, and I didn't know the extent of it until yesterday morning in fact I still probably don't know the half of it because questions keep cropping up that I can't even answer like yours there :|

[PrammyMammy]

I have a letter from the school in ds school bag today
'Ds was involved in a rough play at playtime with another boy. Both boys have been spoken to.'
No other details.

[limitedperiodonly]

I hate that 'personality clash' line. It's used too often by people who don't want to admit they have a case of bullying on their hands.

I suppose you should keep an eye on it for now.

This plan to keep them from using the loo at the same time - how are they going to guarantee that at break times without making both boys stay with a teacher which isn't fair or practical for either of them?

[RooneyMara]

What a rubbish note - what are you supposed to do with that?

I'm really sorry but I agree with the people who said the school sounds inadequate. I wouldn't feel at all comfortable sending my child back.

[PrammyMammy]

I really don't even know why they didn't phone me. Ds said he was playing with a hoop and the boy (same one) wanted it and pulled hoop from him, he didn't want the hoop that was on the ground, he hit ds, ds hit him with the hoop and the lady (playground helper?) stepped in.
I asked him if he liked the boy and he said 'I like him but sometimes he doesnt like me, sometimes he gets mixed up', that sounds to me like something an adult has said to ds tbh.

[cjel]

Sounds like a new school with absent head aren't really coping with this situation. I would want to go to governors and take it further,DS shouldn't have to go to school and face this. I also agree that 'sometimes he gets mixed up' may have been suggested to him. I thought you were told that they were being kept away from each other? how could they be close enough to be fighting over hoops if they are kept apart. If you can I'd go back tomorrow its not something that you should leave.

[kerstina]

Right I am a bit cross now for being called mad just because I spoke of my experience years and years ago at primary school. The boy who got weed on was black as far as I know it was absolutely NOT a bullying incident. The boy who weed said in his defence that he had not seen the boy in the toilet when he went in. He was very sorry about it. The toilets were dark and dingy are people implying I am racist for recalling this story.
Obviously the OPs case was not an accident by the sounds of it.

[Schlock]

Kertsina, I think the boy who weed in your instance must have either had extreme sight problems or was lying, lol. It's like saying you bart simpson in a room painted yellow.

[kerstina]

Maybe but I have known a fair few horrible dark dingy toilets in my time. I always hate them and imagine there is a spider lurking that I cannot see!

[cjel]

I wasn't thinking you were racist i was more astounded by the incident iykwim?