to want to shake some sense into a clueless 38 week pregnant friend?

[Amyo83]

Bear with me, this has quite a bit of a background story but please read all because I could really do with some advice...

Just over a week ago the boyfriend gets a text from a heavily pregnant friend (HPF)? in Hong Kong asking if he still has a spare room as HPF needs to come over to the UK to have the baby in order for the baby to qualify for a UK passport.

HPF manages to find an airline to fly her over at 37 weeks and she arrives with the plan to go into a clinic, have the baby, register the birth, get a passport for DC and fly back 2 weeks later. Later finds out that she can't fly until at least DC is 4 weeks old.

HPF arrives and it transpires that despite having 37 weeks to get things organised, she has nothing really for DC, here in the UK or in HK and is completely clueless in all aspects of childbirth, aftercare and looking after a newborn.

HPF's mother is due to arrive on the 30th (HPF's due date is the 2nd Nov) however she plans on only staying a week and her DH plans to fly over as soon as she starts having contractions. They all plan to fit into boyfriend's tiny boy flat, rendering him homeless and having to take shelter at mine.

We want to help HPF, she desperately needs it. HPF seems to think she can do everything herself, doesn't want to buy too much as she'll have to ship it back to HK and doesn't want to inconvenience anyone. However its very difficult to accept this when she claimed she didn't know what a cot was and believes she can just carry the baby everywhere. And don't get me started on her never hearing of PND and the concern of her being on her own without any preparation in an alien part of London with no-one around her.

Boyfriend and I have tried talking to HPF. We've spoken to friends with babies for their advice but HPF wont listen (we don't have children but like to think we have some common sense). So I'm after some help, stories, what to expect - the good and the bad. Advice to be directed to her (and a little bit to us as no doubt we will be involved in actually helping her once DC is here. We get the feeling that DH is just as clueless.)

So after your initial WTF reaction, which no doubt you will have reading this (everyone else has) please shower us with your knowledge and experience of newborn life for us to print this thread off and subtly leave it stuck to the fridge for HPF to hopefully read. Of course HPF has not read one book on any related subject.

There is so much she actually doesn't need but might be a nice extra. Like Lansinoh cream for soreness if she is breastfeeding. And muslins for protecting your clothes, the sofa, mopping up, all sorts really.

The only definite "needs" you can really get for her are maternity (or just super-thick, nicely padded) sanitary towels, nappies, a pack of sleepsuits and a blanket.

And for practical help, making sure the flat is stocked with laundry powder and freezer meals will be bliss for her. However, you may also want to think about what state you are expecting it to be left in. The first 6 weeks were so upside down for me and 4weeks old was absolutely my toughest time when the adrenalin and energy had run out, seemingly permanently.

She may be expecting to just use a shawl as a sling and co-sleep, which cuts down on almost all the significant purchases. And I just wouldn't get involved in the car seat purchase. Let them work that one out as their needs dictate.

Thanks Frakton. Both DH and I are British and British born. It states that DS has British citizenship on his passport, but wasn't sure if it was the same thing. I know his children may be a different story :)

We didn't have a car seat with either of ours, borrowed for the trip home from hospital, but if that had fallen through the plan was for dh to walk the baby home while I went in a cab, would have worked perfectly well.

Bathjelly your DS's children might be the ones who become stateless unless he marries a chinese. He's british by descent. If his children's mother isn't chinese, even they are born in HK, they won't have chinese/HK citizenship. It's just something to be aware of!

I'd leave her to get on with it - you don't need most of the stuff on all those baby lists.

BTW I have a Cabrio carset I'm looking to get rid of and live in Hammersmith - PM me if she wants it and can collect it in the evening or Sat morning. I was going to ebay it but will just be happy just to see it go. It is in excellent condition, red & black. One of the little shoulder pad bits is missing but that doesn't affect it's function. It has baby head support etc and will fit into any car using existing seatbelt.

What a storm in a teacup!!!

She has newborn nappies (& a hubby who can go get more from the shop on hand lol!)

So pop to ASDA and spend £20 to get a gift pack for her:-
6 baby gros
6 vests
hat + socks
1/2 dozen cheap as fook knickers
some maternity pads
cotton wool.

If you are feeling generous pop in primark & spend another tenner
warm sleep suit/jacket
warm blanket

There - baby sorted. Anything else needed - well she'll have MIL and hubby on hand to pop to the 24 hour supermarket for her!!!!!! I'd say something VERY different if she was giving birth in the Orkneys, but in a major UK city with 2 adults on tap to help, there really isn't any need to panic.

Co-sleeping and slinging (using a shawl not a complex designer thingummie) is common where she's from. She won't be going on daily jaunts while recovering from the bith, so once baby's back at the flat - it'll stay there till it's time to go to the airport.

I'm another that walked home from the hospital the day I gave birth. The clinic WILL make sure she has a safe method to transport the baby home, so it's not your problem.

IFshe's going private for the birth they may even throw in the basics of vests/babygros into the price as presumably Hong Kong Mums will probably something the private clinic deal with every day, given the inhumane citizenship status of newborn residents.

Not being rude but the private hospital probably have a far better handle on what she will/won't need than you do OP. All any newborn NEEDS is a full tum, clean bum and a cuddle - despite all the efforts of the marketeers. She'll probably be innundated with gifts and want to do a shopping trip herself when she returns to HK.

As for fretting about PND etc - why don't you wait till it actually happens, it's not a bloddy given & she has family support. She'll also have an ontap babysitter for the footy match ffs, in her MIL - it's only a couple of hours.

God I had nothing ready. No nappies, no wipes, no clothes. Nadda. Just a pram sitting at home. The cot wasn't even set up. Sent DH out to pick up everything the day after DS was born.

I had nothing either, Cracker. My son was born early and I had been planning to get stuff during maternity leave. Ended up sending my mum out with a shopping list and it was all fine - they don't need much. Nappies, wipes, babygros, vests, muslins, a sling. Maybe a moses basket depending on what you're doing but very little babies tend to want to sleep with/on you anyway. Definitely not a cot - that's for when they get older, surely? Oh and a teddy bear.

Seriously, everything can be sorted out with a dash round the shops by her DH/mother or internet shopping.

The real flaws in her plan that I can see are (i) flying while in such advanced pregnancy: uncomfortable, hope she arrives without going into labour; and (ii) the dopey plan to stay in Poplar when she wants to give birth in Hammersmith. That's the only really barking bit, but it sounds as though you've made that point and been disregarded.

natasha it depends on the countries concerned. Britain may in exceptional circumstances allow citizenship to be passed on but it's a long and complex process. Better all round if its avoided b

Other countries allow you to pass on citizenship indefinitely - France for one and I think America does too as long as you've been resident at some point (for women anyway, I think there's something funny for fathers).

natasha they can apply to be naturalized. But it's not an automatic that they'll become chinese nationals, just because they are born in Hong Kong, and that their parents are also born and resident in Hong Kong.

Don't ask me what criteria you need to naturalize though! I just know there are people who become stateless because of this. They are allowed travel documents, and they have right of abode, but they just aren't chinese nationals.

BTW, the HK government website on citizenship/residency is not readable at all. I spent sometime trying to decipher it, trying to see if I can make an application for my DD. But I gave up as I just couldn't understand the chinese nationality. It's so filled with legalese .

My hospital insists on carrying baby out to a waiting car in car seat and putting baby in the car.

You are not 'allowed' to leave alone either.

I've never thought twice about this tbh, just allowed it to happen. Maybe if you refused they would report you to SS?

Wow I'm jealous of all the people who walked or took the bus home, see no issue with her buying Chelsea tickets for 5 days post-partum (and planning to take the baby too!!) or planning to get from Poplar to Hammersmith in labour (at least an hour in traffic, probably more). If she's being blue-lighted in an ambulance, she won't be taken to her chosen clinic in Hammersmith anyway.

Everyone is focusing on the "stuff" issue - but her other actions/lack of thought I think show that the material preparations are a bit of a red herring. As everyone says the "stuff" can easily be bought or borrowed.

I think the fact that she's insisted that she must stay in the OP's boyfriend's flat, even though it's tiny, he will be turfed out for the foreseeable future, and she has the resources to stay in a far more convenient location for the clinic, shows that she's not as laid back as all that.

The plans for the mother and the DH to fly over and cram into the flat also show that no one is thinking things through and imply she is expecting to spring back into shape the moment she gives birth. Given the timings it's just as likely the mother will fly back before she's even had the baby, unless she's having an ELCS and we haven't been told.

Good luck OP. Hand over your keys, give her your mobile number, and take her to Peninsula or the south quay floating restaurant for dim sum.

OP, do you think there is there some reason your friend wants to be able to give a proper residential address on entry into the UK, or for the passport application, rather than a hotel? Can't think of one offhand, but perhaps there is some specific reason.

Loupylou - and Duty Worker in Social Services would put the phone on mute and laugh like fuck before explaining.....

"You need a car seat if you go in a car because that is the law. If you walk or take public transport you do not need a car seat because you are not going in a car! Regardless it is not an issue for Social Services, please can I deal with children who are actually at risk now, thanks, goodbye."

Hi Amyo is there any news on this - how is your friend managing at the mo?

Just being nosy.

I bought very little for DS as we were flying home to NZ a couple of months after his birth. All we needed was nappies, nursing bras, muslins, clothes and a baby carrier. Our baby slept in our bed until we went home to NZ where a hand-me-down cot was waiting. People in my ante-natal group found it strange that I had so little but it was sleep deprivation not stuff deprivation that I struggled with.

So many baby things are unnecessary and I think people forget that you can actually buy stuff after a baby is born even with a colicky high needs baby or CS she can always send someone to the shops or shop online.

We just bought things on an as needed basis e.g. pads, bigger clothes, nappies etc. Why buy bottles and formula unless you actually need them? My friends who had them in the house before the birth were less successful in bf'ing than those who didn't. I think it's a psychological thing.
Your friend is being unreasonable about kicking your bf out of his flat but he could have said no. You do sound like a kind concerned friend so maybe pick up a packet of babygros and some muslins if you want to help out and maybe point in the direction of mumsnet.

Hi xkcdfangirl as an update, friend is still here and still very pregnant. I think both myself and boyfriend used this thread as reassurance and if people are saying let her get on with it then we will. We'll just be in the background up at my flat should she need anything.

Boyfriend has taken her to ASDA to pick up nappies etc and she's had some babygros delivered and has been looking on line for a few bits and pieces. Boyfriend has also, on the advice of this thread has bought a waterproof mattress protector.

Still slightly concerned that her mother could have been and gone before the baby arrives and we're still hoping for a long labour to give the husband enough time to fly over from HK - but these are things we've gone over and can't seem to change.

We're still due to go on holiday on the 12th for two weeks. But again, hopefully baby will be born by then and her husband will be over.

I don't mind boyfriend living with me whilst his flat is overtaken, (although could do with a bit of financial help to cover his food and eating needs!). We think that the reason she's adamant of staying at his is as a previous post said, she probably needs the address security for all the forms etc. Boyfriend and I are only five minute walk up the road at mine so can be around if necessary.

I've been immersed in citizenship websites trying to understand the situation. As some of the posts have raised concerning the nationality by descent issue, its complicated but interesting reading none the less.

On a weird side, I've been having loads of dreams this week about having a tiny newborn and trying to care for it - so tiny that its only slightly smaller than my hand and me trying to put a nappy on it!

I find this all very strange and now you think she wants to use your boy-friends address for paperwork. I would be VERY suspicious. Hope she doesn't claim squatters right next!

I'd be quite concerned about how long she might stay after having the baby especially if it takes time for passport/visa/flights etc. I'd definitely get a moving out date sorted, she could be there for weeks if not longer based on some of the posters above!

Sounds like a really stupid plan for her flying here for a passport. I don't really understand why it sounds like you are not happy having your boyfriend stay with you. I would just leave her to it. You don't have first hand experience of the whole process yourself which may be why she is not listening. the most you should do is house your boyfriend, make up a few meals for them and then stay out of it. Her mum will be there after all. Very stupid idea for her partner to only come over when she starts contracting - my sisters husband was on a plane when she went into labour unexpectedly early, he only just made the birth.

Our baby went in a plastic tub given as a gift until we sorted cradle....then on the bed with us in the shallow tub.
No pram needed just a good carrier like an ergo and then hire a taxi with a car seat to go to airport.
It will be fine......why should she ship stuff back to HK.........nice of your bf to give up his space.