To expect a colleague with suspected Aspergers not to be rude to me

[pointybird]

I share an office with Bob, and 2 years ago the company employed his 24 year old son Fred who (I believe) has Aspergers. Bob (the father) also displays autistic traits. Fred is increaingly rude to me and I have had to complain to management in the past about the way they both speak to me. Neither Bob nor managment have explained Fred's difficulties to us and I am at a loss as to how deal with Fred's rudeness.

Fred's behaviour is also very bizarre....locking himself in the loo every half hour and shouting/laughing to himself. He is also lazy and incompetent but Bob obviously protects him. How do I deal with this situation, given that management refuses to acknowlege the situation?

There is nothing tricky about the situation, if it is reported to HR. Pointy has not said that the father is the employer, just that his son joined the same company. They are all employed. This means that the employer has an HR responsibility to their employees. There has to be someone responsible for HR matters, even in a small company. If the behaviour is bad & unnacceptable in a workplace, then you make a complaint & it is dealt with.

What you don't do is try to suggest that people are behaving badly because you have decided that they have Aspergers or Autism!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

People don't believe that disabled people can do no wrong, but hate the fact that of someone does something wrong it's tagged as "he must have Asd or something else", as first the only way to spot a disabled person is by rude behaviour where as in all likely hood they are just bad people.

Why should this thread get deleted?
The company the OP works for sounds like a small family run affair and I doubt that her situation will be any improved by complaining, especially as there is no HR dept. She could sue but I think it would be better for her if she just walked away and found another job.
I think it is perfectly acceptable to use your intelligence and experience to wonder if being on the spectrum explains certain behaviour without being shouted down.

Sounds, sounds, sounds, why does OP not discuss???? Why does OP only throw some sentences out here and there, which don't say much???

Why have I reported, because I think it is a wind-up, that's why. But now I am going to enjoy my lunch with my wonderful colleagues, and yes, would I have an issue at work with one or two co-workers, who are also happen to be father and son etc.

Well, I would make sure that I engage with posters and would be more than happy to answer questions and to try to go into more depth. I am looking for help and support afterall, right?!

Now I am off...

It doesn't matter how small the company is, there has to be someone with HR responsibility. You don't have to go & have a giant whine, you could ask for help. Also, if it is a small company, they are unlikely to be carrying dead weight, it could be they really value Fred & Bob. However, that doesn't give Fred & Bob the right to treat Pointy in a bad way. Perhaps Pointy could ask for a meeting with another member of staff present, to discuss general office conduct?
There are ways of dealing with this in a non-confrontational matter. However, if it is really bad, there has to be (even in small companies) a grievance process. Hopefully, somone who knows more about HR than I do can explain further.
Just labelling Fred & Bob as ASD doesn't help anyone's cause.

Onehandflapping. None of us want to do that. I have 2 boys with ASD who are capable of being little turkeys. I do everything possible to encourage better behaviour. It would be doing them a disservice not to.

I do object to armchair diagnosis, though.

Well I'm all for armchair diagnosis if the result is that someone who MAY have SN is cut some slack.

Armchair diagnosis is all you can do in a work situation, where even if the problem employee has been diagnosed with SN, co-workers are (rightly) not going to be told about it.

Which is better, to be more tolerant because a co-worker may have special needs, or write them off as a knob?

My DH is a late diagnosed Aspergers (he was 40 when finally given diagnosis after a lifetime of have work/colleague/social skills problems). He see's the world in black and white, no "shades of grey", and has been known to speak his mind when he see's what he thinks as someone doing something wrong, which has been percieved as rude in the past, and has also got some minor behavioral traits (repeates coversations he has has out loud, mostly to reassure himself he acted correctly, flaps his hands when excited or agitated etc) but he would never throw things at a colleague. His workplace is aware of the problem, as are his work colleagues, and, even though he has got a clinical diagnosis, the management would soon tell him if any other colleague made a complaint, and he would want to know, as he would want some guidence on how to correct his behaviour. My DH is an intelligent, conscientious worker in all other respects, and his colleagues just see it as "MrBubby's way". I think you should go to the management and see what they say.

I thought the (admittedly slightly clumsy) suggestion of something being a bit off was because of shouting in toilets and throwing paperclips, not rudeness. I agree the thread title should have been better phrased and it shouldn't have been posted in AIBU.

I have to say that as somebody who has a child with social difficulties, but also who has watched rather too much supernatural themed TV recently, has the OP considered.... Werewolves? [runs]

I also would hate for the Disabled People Can Do No Wrong lobby to succeed in shutting down all discussion around disability - as they so frequently try to do. What exactly does that achieve?

Its not the discussion around disability that people object to, its the outright insults and aspersions. not to mention the goading, wind ups and blatent shit stirring. often on here 'discussion' around disability is conjecture about a disabled persons genuinity which to be frank gets fucking boring after a very short time.

No one is saying disabled people can do no wrong, I think what is being objected to here is an assumption of autism based purely on bad behavior...cos yeah bad behavior is what autism is all about.

Amber

that is exactly it.

for posting

I don't even know when you can mention stuff anymore tbh

'This fella is giving me agro and behaving strangely. I think he may have xxx'
*how dare you suggest xxx are you a doctor? You have no idea you disgust me'

'This fella is giving me agro and behaving strangely.'
Same people: have you considered he might have xxx or sn?

I feel like you can't even ask a question on some topics without being instantly flamed or people missing the point of the thread on purpose in order to be enraged.

I think people could have said 'well I doubt it's xxx because...'
Or 'we'll if you haven't been told just go about it as you would normally and tell him straight'

Rather than instant rage. It doesn't make for a good discussion. Even if op is not genuine other people will learn something, I posted earlier about being in a bad situation with a colleague with OCD.

I wish we had more of a 'is it ok?' Attitude like on the last leg during the Olympics where we could discuss stuff normally

To be fair I would have thought that locking yourself away every half hour to shout was an autistic trait too

Why can't op have considered that?

I think she was right to consider all options and asking what she should do. Rather an over thinker worried about possible implications than someone not thinking and causing distress to the person should they have something like that.

Not really an autistic trait, but toilet thing is certainly a sign of somebody finding it difficult to follow social norms for what ever reason. (

ok, i'll answer the OPs question in the way you are suggesting could be a possibility, Kayano

OP - IABU if i assume my work colleague and his son have autism because they are rude and throw paper clips at me?

MN - YABU

OP - but i've read on the internet about Aspergers and think they both have it

MN - unless you are an expert in neurological conditions YABU

Maybe op will learn that although AIBU is busy, it's not a good place to go if you want to avoid confrontation. (what with AIBU being a rather confrontational way to start a sentence - I expect kofi anan avoids it.)

UnChartered Thanks

Kayano its mostly not like that though is it? If I had a £1 for every ignorant comment regarding various disabilities and all that goes with it, all the assumptions etc I would be rich.

As I said it gets wearing and even more wearing is the insinuation that people really trawl MN looking for something to be offended about.

Maybe I could rephrase for op.

Another board - not AIBU

"I am finding work difficult because of the behaviour of a colleague which is xxx. It makes me feel xxx and stops me from xxx. I suspect he is behaving this way because he has social difficulties and finds it difficult to pick up on correct social behaviour. I don't think he is just a rude person. His father also works here, and as far as I can see the son is struggling but the father is trying to hide this.

How should I proceed?"

Agreeing with what Amber said.

The advice would be the same whether the lad had autism, any other learning difficulty, mental health issues or was just an unpleasant twunt. The OP shouldn't have to put up with his behaviour, whatever the reason behind it. My eldest can lose his temper big time because his inflexibility of thinking and anxiety put him into meltdown. Whilst we acknowledge that there's an explanation and often a traceable sequence of events leading to such behaviour, it's never alright for him to throw things at people or hit anyone. For a less extreme behaviour, he likes rubbing his lips against people's hair. We know why he does it, but it's not alright.

The lad in the OP might have an uncontrollable compulsion to throw the paperclips. He might be stimulated by the OP's reaction in a way that he can't help. Or he might be intimidating her out of pure nastiness. His behaviour towards her needs to stop, whatever the reason. The only way any disability or illness he may or may not have is relevant is in the exact way he is dealt with by HR. It should make no difference to the OP, which is why i think there is no need for armchair diagnosis.

Title should be

"feel harassed by paper clip throwing of co worker"

But would it be fair for somebody to feel uncomfortable about discussing difficulties they were having with a colleague with their line manager if they suspected the difficulties were caused by a disability? Even though the answer might be "just act as you would with anybody else", is it surprising that some people might want to discuss this on MN, (although not on AIBU)?

Oh, I see that the OP still has not returned to answer any of the questions asked.

I agree with everyone who as said that the aspergers issue is a red herring.

And I remain unimpressed that the Op has loads to say about her suspicions regarding the behaviour of the people involved and yet is determinedly silent when asked precisely the questions she would be asked in any situation involving difficulties with a colleague.

Why are 'have you spoken to HR/management' 'what sort of things does he say' etc so difficult to answer.

I enjoy a good 'but it's so difficult because of the PC torn mad' whine as much as the next person but sticking a half arsed story in aibu is just shooting fish in a barrel.