To think my brother and sister in law are bad parents?

[Oxygene]

Please tell me if i'm over reacting.
My BIL has two lads (13 & 14)and when we go to our MILs for Christmas, they do nothing from the minute they get up to the time they go to bed but play violent war games on the xbox. Not only is it totally anti social when your supposed to be visiting family but I don't agree that a 13 year old should be allowed to play violent and aggressive 18+ restricted games. You wouldn't allow your kids to watch porn would you?

They can't see any wrong in this. The only time they stop is to go the loo and have tea and even then they're texting while at the dinner table. The kids are rude and anti social. We went camping with them last year and I was shocked to see the eldest lad knocking back bottles of blue WKDs. The mum said it was ok so long as they drank with the family so it could be monitored and they could do it responsibly. So it's ok to break the law so long as it's done behind closed doors?

Their dad is now pushing the youngest boy into the caddets where he's allowed to vent off aggression and play with rifles. Fine, if you want to join the army when you're older but glamourising war and allowing kids to play with guns is something I can't agree with.

On one hand they are over strict with them but not where it matters. They've sent them to private school so they can get a strict education but they seem to be going off the rails and the parents just can't see where they're going wrong.

But they weren't going to school the next morning; it was the Christmas holidays.

I tend not to take any notice of anything Panorama reports these days. Yes any activity if done to death will leave any of us spaced out and unable to function. You can only judge on your own experience however and I've not seen anything to make me think my children are adversely affected by playing a war fantasy game. It is precisely that; a game which is not enticing my kids to join the army any time soon or go on a rampage through the streets shooting at random.

I envy parents who are gamers themselves; it must be a great way of spending time together and doing a team based activity. Most board games seem to be about competing against each other rather than working together. The only 'work together' board game I have been able to find is the Orchard, and mine are a bit old for that now.

We used to play Rock Band together as a family, and we had a stage of DS and I playing Plants vs. Zombies as a team, but most of DS's games I don't bother with. It must be great for parents who share the interest.

DS is terrified of rugby and hides at the back! So I don't see any signs of him even meeting the standards of violence and aggression required by his PE teacher, let alone those required to join the army. He will have a water fight with his friends though.

Aggressive and potentially violent behaviour is perhaps already within the personality of the child and then aggravated by a war game I will concede to you and that should be dealt with.

Even so seriously, 14 plus hours a day being allowed to sit there ignoring the rest of the family playing games all day just isn't right. I don't care if it is Christmas or whenever. If they were my kids i'd limit it to 2 to 3 hours a day max. The rest of the time they be made to join in with everyone else.

I'd known them complete a £50 computer game in one day. What a total waste of money.

Do you actually get on with them though? You don't seem to like them very much and most teenagers (well most people really) will find things to do to avoid being in situations where there is an 'atmosphere.'

Join in doing what though oxy?

Ensless talking? Being made to listen to adults carping on about how their generation is shit?

Oxygene Tue 17-Jul-12 10:49:06
"I've seen programmes like Panorama which state the complete opposite. Extensive gaming leaves kids feeling spaced out, detached from reality and inability to function at school the following morning. It also says that long term exposure to violent and aggressive games has an adverse affect on their behaviour."

Programmes like Panorama are set up to prove one specific point and they are always focused on extreme examples. You only need to read the TV requests in our media section here to see that producers ask for a specific type of person for their programmes because they have already decided in advance what their slant is going to be.

They are not scientific surveys showing what the effect of X-Box is on the majority of youngsters.

As for feeling spaced out and detached from reality- in my experience, excessive reading has pretty much the same effect. My gran's generation really didn't approve of that much either, so perhaps they had a point.

And my dd's drama club seems to be doing something similar to her: she is very hyper after a few hours of Shakespeare or Snow White. There have always been concerns about the effect of the theatre on impressionable young people, from the Greeks onwards.

I believe there are musicians who can get into the same state through playing Beethoven- and again, many people over the centuries have worried about the effects of emotional music (you should hear the 13th century theoricians on the subject of polyphonic singing- doesn't sound at all like something your young men should be allowed to take part in when they could be out healthily fighting the paynim).

I think these things may all have something in common: anything that works on the imagination- be it sonnets or games- does to some extent detach you from reality. Whether that is a good or a bad thing is debatable- perhaps moderation is always best. But every generation has its own ideas about which imagination games are bad and good- and they are usually dictated by snobbery and inter-generational moral panics rather than any actual knowledge about what does what to whom.

Oxygene Tue 17-Jul-12 11:00:38

"I'd known them complete a £50 computer game in one day. What a total waste of money."

Dd sat through a £55 play in less than three hours last term. Shocking waste.

Nice post cory

Could your DW ring her parents and tell them that she was disappointed that everyone seemed to sit around doing their own thing last year, and that it might be more fun to organise some activities that everyone could get involved in?

I do understand why you can't be seen to criticise, but I don't really understand why she can't say something as they're her family.

We travel 4 hours, get to the house feeling tired and upon entering the lounge, everyone is sat there with the tv on, half of them are on their phones or laptops and the kids are busy gaming. I'll say hi everyone and i'm lucky to get a grunt in reply even off the adults who can't even be arsed to lift their heads up from their mobile phones or take their eyes off the tv. The only person who bothers to give us a hug and ask how we are is her mum who's well on her way to getting hammered on wine by this point. I'll try to make conversation with her brother and ask how he is and how his work is going and all I get is, 'yeah' and 'alright' and if I don't make the effort to make conversation they won't bother speaking. We'll have dinner where the kids sit at the table messing with their phones or gadgets and again, conversation is hard work. After dinner her dad falls asleep in the armchair while the women sit watching a film whilst getting pissed on wine and the brother sits there ignoring everyone messing with his phone or laptop and the kids get back to their gaming. They really are a rude lot and such hard work to be around.

The time they came to visit us they (her mum and dad as well as brother and sister in law) did nothing but moan and complain and criticise the place and the people and just kept going on about how where they lived was far better and how we'd be better off if my wife moved back closer to her family. Her mum and dad even bring their own food when they come to visit us like the food in our house isn't good enough for them. They complained about the coffee I had in and they even went out and bought their own teaspoons as mine were too big, apparently.
We tried to entertain them and took them out for a meal and they complained about the food which they do everywhere they go. All they wanted to do the entire visit was sit in the house. It's embarrassing. Her dad complains about the beer everywhere he goes. When we got married they moaned about the entertainment and all sat around one table all night not making the effort to join in or talk to anyone else. These people are just plain weird and anti social and anything outside their own little world they turn their nose up at. My parents don't like them very much so don't have anything to do with them although none of us have ever made them feel unwelcome. Just being around people like this is mentally draining. No matter what I do or how hard I try with them it's pointless. So now i've got to the stage where I can't be arsed to make the effort anymore and my DW hasn't bothered asking her parents to visit after the last time where I seriously had to bite my tongue. Spending 3 days of my holiday with these people is my idea of sheer and utter hell.

peaks I really enjoy playing with and against my DC on the wii. There's lots of games where you can play together available on the wii.

Just so as the op doesn't look sternly over her glasses at me, I find that we always end up laughing and leaping about when paying with them on the wii. Not anti social or unhealthy in the slightest

I don't mean to be rude but Christmas is long gone, why are you so worried about it all these months later?
You don't have to visit this Christmas

It does sound hard work Oxy and the children's behaviour is clearly learned from the adults. Depending on what your Wife wants should determine whether you choose to see them again as there seems to be little communication going on even when you're all in the same room! Don't visit them if you can arrange it and your dw is happy to go alone.

TPOTW, I have thought about getting a Wii; DD would probably like a lot of the dancing type games, and we used to love mariokarts on the gamecube which can also be played on the Wii I think. I might look into getting one at some point, but currently the kids are obsessed with getting all of the Lord of The Rings Lego, so that is going to use up all birthday and Christmas presents this year.

Christmas might be well away but we're going in a couple of weeks for a visit and sadly there's no getting out of this one. I've already avoided 3 visits this year.

Could you take a book if nobody is going to speak to you?

Peaksandtroughs

The only 'work together' board game I have been able to find is the Orchard, and mine are a bit old for that now.

You need a copy of Pandemic!

Brilliant co-operative board game, and I say that as a computer game aficionado, too. here

Available from Amazon, and any good independent board game retailer.

Just don't go.

Thanks Jessie. I've had a look at Amazon and the game looks really good. I will order it to play over the Summer holidays.

Oh dear Oxy take a good book as there seems little chance of conversation. Do you or them play cards, mine adore playing games for pennies, simple games such as Stop the Bus and other ones that I can't remember but bring everyone together [apart from me as I hate cards] including Grannies and Grandads.

I'd love not to go but I have to otherwise is will cause an argument between me and my DW and her family will think i'm the one that's being rude and anti social.

What do you want form this thread OP?

You asked Please tell me if i'm over reacting. and lots of us have agreed that we wouldn't parent that way. You've also been given strategies for minimising the effect their behaviour has as well as some good advice to contextualise it and be careful not to rant away let your feelings show in front of your children.

And yet you rehash their faults. Do you feel vindicated, reassured, beleaguered? Do you feel any happier about the visits? Seriously, what are you achieving here?