To think my brother and sister in law are bad parents?

[Oxygene]

Please tell me if i'm over reacting.
My BIL has two lads (13 & 14)and when we go to our MILs for Christmas, they do nothing from the minute they get up to the time they go to bed but play violent war games on the xbox. Not only is it totally anti social when your supposed to be visiting family but I don't agree that a 13 year old should be allowed to play violent and aggressive 18+ restricted games. You wouldn't allow your kids to watch porn would you?

They can't see any wrong in this. The only time they stop is to go the loo and have tea and even then they're texting while at the dinner table. The kids are rude and anti social. We went camping with them last year and I was shocked to see the eldest lad knocking back bottles of blue WKDs. The mum said it was ok so long as they drank with the family so it could be monitored and they could do it responsibly. So it's ok to break the law so long as it's done behind closed doors?

Their dad is now pushing the youngest boy into the caddets where he's allowed to vent off aggression and play with rifles. Fine, if you want to join the army when you're older but glamourising war and allowing kids to play with guns is something I can't agree with.

On one hand they are over strict with them but not where it matters. They've sent them to private school so they can get a strict education but they seem to be going off the rails and the parents just can't see where they're going wrong.

It's funny how all these people who haven't got teenaged boys are passing judgment about xbox.In a few years their kids will be just the same, or else they'll be kicking down fences hanging around on street corners , doing drugs and drink in the park.And when you are clearly so judgmental, do you think it is encouraging these children to want to socialise with you?

thehappyhissy be4caue some certification board says a game is unsuitable for under 18s , parents have to mindlessly agree? No, parents make up their own minds.Boys have been playing shooting games, watching shoot em up films since forever.You can join the army at 16, but you are too young for shooting xbox games??

YANBU and it's nice you are concerned about your nephews.

What good old days? Like the workhouse, child execution, domestic violence, sexism, racism and child abuse seen as common place and acceptable, disease and abject poverty and low life expectancy?

'Around where they live they can play the big shot and brag off but when they come here they can't because this place is full of wealthy people. People with genuine money '
You sound so snobby!! Your money is 'better' than theirs.I don't think the fact that this little jumped up oik from a council house has done well for himself, sits well with you at all.You sound as though you are the one with a chip on your shoulder

oxygene - how old /many children have you got and do they go to private school?

But these boys are not toddlers who need entertaining. They are quite capable of being made to join in and socialise but instead they're being allowed to be rude and anti social because it's easier for their parents to adopt the hands off approach and let them get on with what they want. Personally i'd love the opportunity to lock myself away with a good book when i'm there and ignore the lot of them but I have to make the effort. Why can't they?

hunas yep your right it's called girls

op in my experance the main thing wrong with the youth of today is that most of us are no longer in it.

Tbh i'll be happy for my kids to play xbox when they are teenagers, especially after what i heard from gang of 12-13 yr olds yesterday-i heard a 12ish yr old talking openly about how her 16 yo boyfriend is a gigalo and gives her money for sexual favours, then the 13ish boy talking loudly bragging about his penis size and that she should 'do him' instead, and he went on about how he bashed an old man up, all this in front of my 6yo, i was not amused at how loudly they were talking in the street & in front of my little girl, but i didn't dare tell them to keep quiet as there were 5 of them on big bikes looking quite imtimidating, so i marched off with my dd as fast as i could!
So all in all id prefer my children away from the streets where these feral kids hang out, obviously their parents don't give a shit about them!

I fully get that, Oxygene, and that is what I expect (and get) from my own teens at a family gathering.

But if your style of conversation is anything like the way you write, then quite frankly I can understand if they try to escape in any way they can.

OP, I think now is the time to think about how you manage your family visits to the ILS. Really reduce the time you are with them at Christmas, stay in a hotel so that you can leave at toddlers bedtime, DW will have seen her relatives, job done.

Or scrap Christmas there and see other people at home, then visit the ILS another time. It isn't a rule that you must spend Christmas there, in fact more and more mumsnetters are having Christmas in their own homes to be able to enjoy it as they wish and avoid family. As no-one seems to notice whether you are there or not this seems an attractive option.

Consider dropping by on your way to or from somewhere else (e.g. on a week-end away or at either end of a holiday at another time of the year) so that you are not obliged to stay long, but they have still seen their grandchild. Someone upthread said very short but more frequent visits seemed to work better for them.

boneyjonesy Good point!

Also, why get all hot and heavy about games and not books? I'm reading the Game Of Thrones fantasy series that DN2 has lent to me. It's fab but choc full of war, incest and general skulduggery. So far DN2 has shown no signs of calling in his banner men and heading off to to London to give Her Madge the chop, any more than DS1 started biting holes in surfers after playing Jaws!

Kids are quite able to tell reality from fantasy, and if the odd one isn't then to be honest too much screen time is the least of their problems.

I don't know about you but I socialise for pleasure, if I don't feel like doing it then I don't, you may find that everyone would have a better time if you just didn't.

Out of intrest was the xbox a Xmas pressie? Or were they given xbox games hence why they were playing with them then?

Boney, so you're saying that people who've got teenage lads will end up with them hanging around on street corners and causing trouble kicking down fences if they don't have an Xbox to entertain them? What rubbish! I never hung around street corners causing trouble and the answer wasn't 'hey let's get a games consol so he can keep out of bother.' Sounds like lazy parenting if you ask me. They want the games to keep the kids out of trouble and entertained so the parents don't have to discipline and keep control or actually make any effort. I never had any of the gadgets kids have today and I never got into trouble because my parents taught me respect and discipline.

My parents took me on holidays to the lakes and we went sailing, days out, fishing etc. i'd meet up with friends after school to play football or go on bike rides or go to the leisure centre or join a social group or the scouts. There's more to life than letting your kids sit around letting their brains turn to mush on an xbox.

When I went to visit relatives I had to sit there with the adults and make the effort to join in. I wasn't allowed to clear off into another room and do my own thing. But I guess for some parents it's just easier to let your kids do as they please for a quiet easy life.

oxy kids are still doing all those things.

I took my DC to the ice rink yesterday and it was packed.
Go to any footie pitch on a sunday moring and you will see teams and teams of young boys and girls playing in leagues all across the country.

Try going to the Science Museum or Tower of London during the school holidays and you'll see that thousands of young people are enjoying themselves.

But I bet you, they all have an X box, or a PS3 etc. Life is about balance no?

You don't sound as if you actually like young people very much- totally hung up on the idea of how perfect you were and how bad it is that young people today aren't the same.

I imagine the older generation felt the same about you when you were young- all that time spent on luxurious pleasures when youngsters in their day would have been doing a responsible job and contributing to the family.

I had a childhood very similar to yours, and my gran (who had had to leave school after primary to help support her family) was not exactly convinced that mine was a life of discipline and respect; she thought I was dreadfully spoilt and that it was bound to end in tears. I could see her point but was still grateful when she didn't nag about it.

Yes moderation and balance is fine. That's not letting your kids play computer games from 8am till past 10pm at night for a week solid when you're visiting family and have other people there who've come to see you. In fact it's not acceptable at ANY time.

Again, no problem with a glass of wine or a small beer with a family meal every now and again but letting a 14 year old child work his way through a box of blue wkd's while on a camping holiday to the point he's swinging round and staggering and his mum has to tell him to go to bed. That's just totally irresponsible and lazy parenting. I don't care if she says it's fine because it's within the family. This country has an unhealthy obsession with booze and binge drinking and i'd hardly say that allowing your child to neck 6 bottles of blue wkd is encouraging sensible responsible drinking.

Yes but the crucial difference is that back in your day all your friends weren't at home on the xbox or playstation or whatever.
Can you explain what you mean by games turn your brains to mush?There is a lot of stategy and teamwork involved (they play online collaboratively with their friends-this is a major means of teenage socialising)

Besides you are only seeing them for 3 days over xmas.Everythings kind of different over xmas when people tend to be home with their families chilling out.if they've just broken up from a very strict private school ( which no doubt has long days and lots of homework they are just ready to veg out)
Do the oik and his family not go on holiday then? Perhaps they can't afford sailing and days out because they are sacrificing all that for their DCs education.
In a nut shell 3 days is a long time to stay with people especially people you have nothing in common with.Any tiny little fault gets magnified 100x. there is a saying 'visitors are like fish, after 3 days they stink'

I thought it was 4 bottles? You only get 4 bottles in a packet of wkds

This is a big fuss about nothing.

DS (14) would probably be glued to a game over Christmas, because he would have got the game for Christmas and wanted to complete it before the return in a week of school and mountains of homework.

As for the alcohol, DS doesn't drink but it wouldn't concern me if he did do occasionally.

I would draw the line at texting at the table though, although mine rarely bother with their mobile phones and just have them for emergencies.

No it wasn't one of those small 4 packs. It's was a box of a dozen which I think was meant to last the entire holiday so he just kept dipping in to it. After about 6 (i think) his mum told him he'd had enough as he was spinning around acting stupid so she told him not to have any more and to get ready for bed.

There is evidence online that supports the theory that Gamers have greater ability in problem solving and are able to stay focused on specific tasks for longer, also they have been found to multi- task better than non gamers! I think these things whenever my three thoughtful, non aggressive, intelligent, sociable boys go online and fight crime, save the world and maybe win the World Cup with a free kick that Ronaldo would be proud of

I agree that games are educational, although lots of teenagers (including DS) now seem to play Minecraft, which is particularly helpful with reasoning skills, problem solving and Geography.

It's an interesting thread, I'm glued to it, but must swan off to neck a cup of tea, but then again I might guzzle it.

I have just looked it up, and apparently schools like Minecraft because it is good for STEM subjects.

Oxy it may seem like a lot at Xmas, but you're only seeing a snap shot of this family. And an unusaul one at that. By your own account, you don't ever see these children otherwise and in their familial setting.

When we visit my family oop north, I suspect everyone thinks my DS cannot speak. He finds the entire experience overhwelming and retreats. If there were an xbox around, he would play it .

But the reality is that my DS is not an over-gamer. Nor is he mute. He plays football, and cricket and tennis. He runs at national level. He gets up each morning and reads the BBC News online...right now he is walking the dog with his sister, while I wait in for a parcel.

I've seen programmes like Panorama which state the complete opposite. Extensive gaming leaves kids feeling spaced out, detached from reality and inability to function at school the following morning. It also says that long term exposure to violent and aggressive games has an adverse affect on their behaviour.