less than 2 weeks notice of cutting of contact...

[WeeDom]

I live some distance, about 300 miles, from my children (the reasons for this are many, and not the topic of this conversation).

Mrs. Ex and I have been divorced for about six years, During each summer holiday, we had custody of the children for exactly three weeks, and for the entire Festive Season alternating years. This worked well, mostly, although she arranged a two week family holiday, once, for halfway during the family holiday (meaning I could only have two weeks with the girls) and I made it clear that this was not ok, since it was done without consultation, and should never happen again.

Three years ago she met a new man. I've never had a problem with this and, indeed, went out of my way to meet the guy shake his hand, and congratulate him on meeting a good woman, shame it never worked out between her and I, etc. I've never been rude or impolite to him, even shaken his hand on another occasion and thanked him for being good to my children.

So... my good character ascertained, eh?

Three years ago, co-incidentally, we started to have problems. Where I would previously have slept on her sofa whilst visiting the children, and she might give us a lift here and there, now I'm not allowed near the house. At eldest childs 9th birthday, for instance, I was at a particular low ebb financially, but hitchhiked to their town to see my daughter for her birthday. I made it there, barely, but they whisked both children away to the nearest big town leaving me to (their words): "get there or miss them". Their little village isn't on a bus-route and whilst they drove past me in pouring sleet/rain, with a spare seat in their car, I had to hitch into town along a road regularly used by huge lorries - I twice had to dive into a hedge to avoid getting hit.

I hope that sets a bit of a picture - there are far more examples like this, but I shan't carry on.

So - this year.

In March, Mrs Ex invited me to mediation. Mediation was a complete waste of £180, on my part, f*ck knows how much on their part. Again, I don't know how much detail to go into here, but suffice to say it consisted of such nonsense as -

• you drove to Scotland overnight (arrival time appox 2am), once, without taking breaks I would have expected you to take. This was dangerous (Not only did the children arrive safely, have a great weekend, and get delivered back safely, but Mrs Ex and I regularly drove there and back with the children in a weekend whilst married)
• Youngest once had a dirty nappy whilst you were asleep. This shows neglect.
• You hadn't hoovered your car when you picked up/delivered the girls.

I'm sure you get the picture. Sorry about the pre-amble, but I feel I need to set that picture a bit.

Shortly after mediation (March 27th), I contacted Mrs. Ex and asked her if I could have the girls for the first part of the summer holidays:

Her reply:

"Date: Tue, 27 Mar 2012 18:01:02 +0000

With regard to the summer hols, first of all the 20th to 4th Aug is only 2 weeks.

... (some text/names removed)

I'll get back to you as soon as I can find out, but would you let me know whether you actually meant 4 August, or the following week which is the 11th. "

Oops, went the reply, thanks for pointing out the mistake. I did indeed mean three weeks.

No further contact until June.

Then: 22/06 - "For this summer holiday, I would suggest we go back to you picking the girls up on Wednesday 25th July and bringing them back on Monday 13 August."

Er - no, that's five days off the three weeks! And Granny and Grandad have flights and accommodation booked, arriving here on the 20th, departing 25th!! Why are we only hearing about this now??

Then 27/06 - "I would like your agreement that you will bring the girls back on Saturday 11 August please at a reasonable time.

You have made life more difficult as we can't get Eldest any of her new uniform from New-school until Tuesday 24th July. All the other dates the shop is open is whilst the girls are away. I can get some things, but Eldest needs to try the blazer on.

Please just send back confirmation that you will pick the girls up Monday 23 July and bring them back Sat 11 July. "

so a) We've lost at least two days with the children b) I'm responsible for the opening times of a shop 350 miles away.

But - "please just send back confirmation that... etc". She's asking me, and she's quite clear on this elsewhere (Festive Season completely removed two years ago for non-compliance!!), that I have to send her a letter confirming that I will agree to cut short our agreed three weeks. If she doesn't receive this letter, then she will make sure that she and the children are not around when I turn up to collect the children on 23rd July.

To summarise, a little - my parents are flying here from Scotland to visit their children towards the end of July. Unless I send a signed letter to my ex-wife stating that I will cut short my Contact time with my children, then neither me nor their grandparents will be allowed time together as a family.

The children are perfectly happy whilst down here, they've never been at risk. Indeed, the two DS's have been assessed by SS, because they were HE for a year or so, and the assessor seemed bored at having been sent out to such a boringly well functioning household.

Am I being unreasonable in thinking that none of this is ok?

The thing is, it doesn't matter what you, or anyone else thinks or feels about the situation, you need a court order to set your access and visitation.
Without one, she can do what she likes more or less, and there's nothing you can do about it.
It is always a shame when couple can't agree to do what's best for the children, rather than themselves.
Can you get some legal advice about getting a formal custody/visitation order? Even if it's just the CAB, you need proper info and advice as to your rights (and hers) and what you both can and can't do legally, as, in the end, that's all that counts unfotunately.

Do you have a written agreement regarding access to the children from when you divorced or has the three week split and alternate christmas' just been the norm thus far?

@Pom: I'm pretty au fait with the HRA8 (heh - that rhymes!) but it does need to be written down. I thought that had been largely achieved in March, but it doesn't seem to be worth any more than the paper that the 2006 mediation agreement was written on.

@Confusion: see above. We had an agreement that clearly wasn't strong enough. When she didn't like the terms, she tore the agreement up.

take the time you are offered... then try to get more/renegotiate/court. if you go to court before the holiday with you, you may lose that as well.

by what communication method did she say that she would not be around for you to collect them?

Your wife needs a good talking too!!!

I wud reply but stating you were not happy at this messing about, breaking of terms upset to dd's etc, clearly distressing for them. Give her to option to return to original.

Then get to court!!!!!

@redwhiteandblue: I think I could probably lay my hands on a solicitors letter (or email), or two, where she said that she would not be around if I was to collect them.

YANBU, you need to get back to your solicitor pronto and get their advice. It may cost you more money but if you don't get this sorted now it could seriously compromise your future time with your children.

OK it sounds to me like she's being a picky arse and sees you as an inconvenience and wants to pick pick pick. It doesn't appear to me she wants to stop you seeing the DC but she is going to scrape as many days off you as possible.

My thoughts on this are:
(1) I know you said it's irrelevant but why are you living 300 miles from your DC? I ask because if my xP moved 300 miles from me and then didn't have the money to make the journey (hitchhiking/little tim imagery of them driving past in car on rainy highway)/needed to stay on my couch I'd feel like well I 'manned up' and became a single parent, responsible for my own contact/dealings with my DC - why do I need to babysit their dad too to ensure he gets to see them.
(2) I would be accommodating for now in exchange for confirmation of future dates in writing e.g. can you reply to say in view of losing 5 days you would like to have DC for half term in October - or try for something near Christmas and will be happy to confirm her summer dates if she confirms similar for you being able to make up the 5 days on another occasion ALL IN WRITING with CONFIRMED DATES - agree those dates now.
(3) Okay you have known things have changed for the past 3 years (you think it coincides with new bloke - but you dont say anything further re non-compliance for festive season 2 years ago?) - am wondering why you let GPs book their flight before confirming dates. For the three months between end of March and end of June when she didn't reply re your suggested dates did you chase asking for her to confirm in order for your parents to book their flights? Is there any way they can alter their plans so they can fly to where X is and spend some time with the GCs for 5 days? Or can they extend their stay? I'm not saying she's right to do this - I am saying you are disorganised to not push for dates and make it clear to DCs you are trying to sort out dates for summer hold so they can see their GPs especially when you know how X is behaving - you need to work a bit smarter against tactics like these.

Can you take eldest to get blazer for school? The more helpful you are the more unreasonable she looks. Communicate in writing as much as possible and think of all communications as being potentially court fodder in the future.

You sound like a very good caring Dad - the type of Dad that all children need.

My cousin or his children travel 100s of miles between Birmingham & Dorset to spend alternate weekends together.
In his situation - his ex-wife put obstacles in his path mainly due to feeling inconvenienced over the distance between my cousin & his children (even though it was the ex-wife who moved away with the children to get remarried).

Also jealousy over my cousin's new girlfriend & baby was an issue (despite the wife having a new husband!!).
Luckily all issues were resolved - it's not been easy but for my cousin & children it's been worth the hassle as they have a good relationship.

It's important to remember that as your daughters get older they will be the ones who will encourage your ex-wife to maintain or even increase access.

When you do spend time together don't fall into the trap of thinking you have to do expensive activities or buy expensive presents - the things that children value & remember are the fun you have; the security, warmth & unconditional love that you show them. They will value small simple gifts that remind them of you.

It's good if you can share a hobby or interest that they will associate with you. Just something simple like collecting shells if you live near a beach; or making chocolate cornflake cakes; feeding ducks at the park; going for walks where they can have an icecream & look for squirrels & pigeons.

If you don't have a pet then get one - pets are a motivating factor when getting young children to actively persist in wanting to visit you! (Soppy fluffy cats are always good).

Feeling able to talk positively about their mum & husband without worrying about upsetting you is very important.

Because they are young then use simple things like music & food that will make them think of you - always play the same music they can sing or dance to; eat foods that they enjoy but might not have at home.

On the legal side:
Make sure you have a good solicitor who specialises in family law - get legal advice asap & follow it.
Try to keep records of every contact with the ex & her family: tape every phonecall, keep every text, photocopy all letters.
Keep a diary (eg. bullet points) of everything that you do with your daughters during visits (inc. details of meals, even nappy changes if that's been a complaint) - anything however small that could be useful in legal situations.

During contact with your ex - never lose your temper or show anger however tempting it is. Be assertive but always be extra polite & pleasant - that way they won't have any ammunition.
It's worth trying to find out the real reasons behind your ex's attitude - the solicitor may suggest ways to do this. Then those reasons can be addressed.

It's hard work but keep trying & never give up because it really will be worth it for you & your daughters; good luck.

I agree that you need to go back to court.

It is horrible of a parent to hurt the children by sabotaging their contact with the other parent.

I assume this chap is the problem, since she was fine before him. Jealous type?

Eeek sorry was long post, didn't realise!
Tried to think of what it is i remember & loved about my Dad as a child - parents weren't divorced then but he worked long hours & we had no spare money - so the memorable things were similar to what i mentioned above.

Ultimately you need a court order to define contact but that won't help with the immediate problems. I'd be tempted to call the ex on some pretext and verbally agree to the early return date then when it came to the holidays I'd return the children as I'd originally planned to. The ex could complain but, hey, it's her word against yours that you agreed to return your girls on the 11th.

May I just add that you have my utter respect for all you've done to maintain contact with your children. If only they were all that lucky.

Perhaps you could point out to her that the girls are now getting old enough to understand that she is being a vindictive bitch & that this will do her no favours at all in the long run.

I do agree that you need to seek legal advice & pronto but take what is on offer for the summer hols-you'll just have to suck it up for the moment.

This is a hard one (and I would feel the same way if you were mum) the distance you live away is a none issue irrispective of who moved, maintainance liability is reduced significantly if large distances are traveled for contact, it's your responsability to make sure you can keep up with this. I personally wouldn't have driven past you and would have offered you a lift but that's on the assumption that there is no history that may cause bad feeling (arguements abuse of any kind or maintainance issues)
tbh the little complaints you refer to are a bit odd seen as you are so far away or have you always stayed at hers during contact?
Are there other complaints that perhaps arnt so silly? Or are there any that are subjective depending on standerds?
I personally wouldn't accomadate an ex for contact but that's just me I also wouldn't change the arangements unless it was normal on either side to change them.
But you knew this was going to happen why did your parents book flight befor it had been delt with.
In all fairness I would do all comunications in writing I wouldn't bother with the phone and I would also ask for all arangements to be confirmed and finally confirmed at least a month befor the event on both sides.
I see no issue with her taking a holiday but she should have been flexable with making up your contact either befor or after.
The downside to being rigid with arangements and having them set at least a month in advance is you can't change them after but neither can she. The upside is all potential issues get delt with in the arangeing stage.And you both know where your at,it sounds like both of you need to be kinda proffesional or formal with how long you both have to respond to each other ect.
The blazer thing is an issue but there are many ways to deal with it perhaps if you are unwilling to return them early for her to obtain this (if it is a part of the school uniform) you could get her measurement with help from anyone who knows how to do it and have order placed over phone downside is you have to fix it if you fuck up on the measurements.
I would also get proper legal advice and not bother with mediation as it's clearly not working for you both.

She has explained to you that the only date your daughter can try on the new school blazer is 24 July. This is a purely practical issue - she isn't doing this to annoy you!

Why did your mum and dad go ahead and book their flights and accommodation before you and your ex had agreed contact dates? The simple solution is for them to change their arrangements. If they don't do that, they don't get to see their grandchildren.

To be honest, you sound pretty disorganised - not to mention sanctimonious and irritating.

Wheezo - I didn't say the distance was irrelevant, I meant I didn't want that to be what this discussion is about.

Sleeping on her sofa was not about the need for "manning up", it was about helping someone out when they need it. At the time, we were both adamant that we would remain friends, go to each others next weddings (should that occur), etc. It didn't seem like much to crash on (what was then) my best friends sofa when I needed it.

BarredfromhavingStella - I've tried explaining to her that all this will bite her on the arse, hard, in a few years time. It has little effect.

Latara - I do all of the things you've mentioned. They do have a whale of a time when they're with me.

Socknickingpixie - the complaints, yes there is one major one that is very subjective. When properly skint, I once (whilst returning the kids to her) spent the night camped in the back garden of her local pub. This is something that they offer on their website, so I took them up on it. I got the kids bedded down, made sure they were warm enough, kissed them goodnight, and went inside to say hi to the landlords. I had a pint or two, but was in and out all night checking on the kids. Everyone else in the place (all two of them aside from the landlord) said that the kids would be fine out there, nobody apart from us would even know they were there. This has been turned into "leaving the children unattended".

olgaga - re blazer, she's blaming me for the fact the shop is shut. Re Grandparents, the wording of the communication between me and Mrs. Ex was such that I fully believed agreement had been reached. Re sanctimonious and irritating - that's a bit harsh, don't you think? Been drinking before lunch, had you?

Good that they enjoy spending time with you; so even if there are access issues now, they should still want be in contact when they are older.

Now is the time to get legal advice & start recording every communication you have with your ex, her partner & family.
You may find that your ex will calm down & the problems will be resolved without outside help.
But it's good to sort out the legal advice in case things don't get resolved.

well i personally wouldnt allow any of my children to camp in the garden of a pub and i wouldnt be happy about somebody caring for them drinking under these circumstances, would it have been the sort of thing she would have said was ok if you were still togather?

did she know you were skint and couldnt afford to accomadate the children? if this was the case then is there a reason you couldnt take them back during the day of the night that they camped out?

if you pay maintainance is it a reasonable ammount and do you get the reduction to take into account the additional travel?

is the only time you have the kids during the summer holidays and festival?

im fairly intrested in the nappy thing, how did she know child had a dirty nappy? the reason why i ask is were you in her company or did child return with nappy rash?

if you really think about it is there a chance that some of the complaints she has made may perhaps be fair or are they all incorrect or unfair?

out of intrest have you made complaints about her? im asking this because im wondering if this is a tit for tat thing because it would explain her making those complaints.

do you have any idea how she explains why your both unable to cooperate with each other when you both had good intentions at the start of the divorce?

forgive the questions but i am incredibly nosey

You left your kids unnattended in a tent in the back garden of a pub whilst you had a beer ? And nobody but you and some random blokes in a pub would know they were there ?
Are you SERIOUS? You think that is a completely sensible and normal thing to do ?

Um..can you maybe learn to drive and get a car? That might help matters, and make it easier to see your kids.

Latara - well, this is the odd thing. Most separated couples I know, including my new fiancee, had stormy starts to the post-breakup relationship, but things settle down after a couple of years. This has been totally the other way round.

We've had solicitors involved in the past few years, but to be honest that was a waste of time and money. They were more than happy to send letters back and forth until they were blue in the face, even when the demands she was making were plainly silly. At, what, £60 per letter I don't really blame them. It was the month-long round-trip that pained me the most. My solicitor would send a letter, which would take a week to get received and processed to the top of his inbox. Then it would take a week for her solicitor to write a reply, which would take a week to get through to my solicitor and the top of his inbox, etc. Horrible, painful, expensive and utterly unproductive.

At what point in your break up did you leave your children unnattended at night in a pub garden ?

I think you sound like your heart is basically in the right place. But some of the things you have said about yourself and the way you organise your life are quite unorthodox. The pub garden thing...maybe it was all fine, you sound like you really thought it was, but honestly...you can't see that doesn't look good for you?

Just have to say though, despite thinking initially that you sounded like a decent but somewhat naive guy, when I got to this bit of your second post:

Re sanctimonious and irritating - that's a bit harsh, don't you think? Been drinking before lunch, had you?

...made me laugh. Either you were going for super-ironic in your reaction, or you just proved the initial poster absolutely right in her assessment of you!

is there any reason why her solicitor couldnt write directly to you and you reply? that way you pay no fees

The leaving the kids in a pub garden camping sounds very iffy, sorry.