less than 2 weeks notice of cutting of contact...

[WeeDom]

I live some distance, about 300 miles, from my children (the reasons for this are many, and not the topic of this conversation).

Mrs. Ex and I have been divorced for about six years, During each summer holiday, we had custody of the children for exactly three weeks, and for the entire Festive Season alternating years. This worked well, mostly, although she arranged a two week family holiday, once, for halfway during the family holiday (meaning I could only have two weeks with the girls) and I made it clear that this was not ok, since it was done without consultation, and should never happen again.

Three years ago she met a new man. I've never had a problem with this and, indeed, went out of my way to meet the guy shake his hand, and congratulate him on meeting a good woman, shame it never worked out between her and I, etc. I've never been rude or impolite to him, even shaken his hand on another occasion and thanked him for being good to my children.

So... my good character ascertained, eh?

Three years ago, co-incidentally, we started to have problems. Where I would previously have slept on her sofa whilst visiting the children, and she might give us a lift here and there, now I'm not allowed near the house. At eldest childs 9th birthday, for instance, I was at a particular low ebb financially, but hitchhiked to their town to see my daughter for her birthday. I made it there, barely, but they whisked both children away to the nearest big town leaving me to (their words): "get there or miss them". Their little village isn't on a bus-route and whilst they drove past me in pouring sleet/rain, with a spare seat in their car, I had to hitch into town along a road regularly used by huge lorries - I twice had to dive into a hedge to avoid getting hit.

I hope that sets a bit of a picture - there are far more examples like this, but I shan't carry on.

So - this year.

In March, Mrs Ex invited me to mediation. Mediation was a complete waste of £180, on my part, f*ck knows how much on their part. Again, I don't know how much detail to go into here, but suffice to say it consisted of such nonsense as -

• you drove to Scotland overnight (arrival time appox 2am), once, without taking breaks I would have expected you to take. This was dangerous (Not only did the children arrive safely, have a great weekend, and get delivered back safely, but Mrs Ex and I regularly drove there and back with the children in a weekend whilst married)
• Youngest once had a dirty nappy whilst you were asleep. This shows neglect.
• You hadn't hoovered your car when you picked up/delivered the girls.

I'm sure you get the picture. Sorry about the pre-amble, but I feel I need to set that picture a bit.

Shortly after mediation (March 27th), I contacted Mrs. Ex and asked her if I could have the girls for the first part of the summer holidays:

Her reply:

"Date: Tue, 27 Mar 2012 18:01:02 +0000

With regard to the summer hols, first of all the 20th to 4th Aug is only 2 weeks.

... (some text/names removed)

I'll get back to you as soon as I can find out, but would you let me know whether you actually meant 4 August, or the following week which is the 11th. "

Oops, went the reply, thanks for pointing out the mistake. I did indeed mean three weeks.

No further contact until June.

Then: 22/06 - "For this summer holiday, I would suggest we go back to you picking the girls up on Wednesday 25th July and bringing them back on Monday 13 August."

Er - no, that's five days off the three weeks! And Granny and Grandad have flights and accommodation booked, arriving here on the 20th, departing 25th!! Why are we only hearing about this now??

Then 27/06 - "I would like your agreement that you will bring the girls back on Saturday 11 August please at a reasonable time.

You have made life more difficult as we can't get Eldest any of her new uniform from New-school until Tuesday 24th July. All the other dates the shop is open is whilst the girls are away. I can get some things, but Eldest needs to try the blazer on.

Please just send back confirmation that you will pick the girls up Monday 23 July and bring them back Sat 11 July. "

so a) We've lost at least two days with the children b) I'm responsible for the opening times of a shop 350 miles away.

But - "please just send back confirmation that... etc". She's asking me, and she's quite clear on this elsewhere (Festive Season completely removed two years ago for non-compliance!!), that I have to send her a letter confirming that I will agree to cut short our agreed three weeks. If she doesn't receive this letter, then she will make sure that she and the children are not around when I turn up to collect the children on 23rd July.

To summarise, a little - my parents are flying here from Scotland to visit their children towards the end of July. Unless I send a signed letter to my ex-wife stating that I will cut short my Contact time with my children, then neither me nor their grandparents will be allowed time together as a family.

The children are perfectly happy whilst down here, they've never been at risk. Indeed, the two DS's have been assessed by SS, because they were HE for a year or so, and the assessor seemed bored at having been sent out to such a boringly well functioning household.

Am I being unreasonable in thinking that none of this is ok?

Sassy: I've met one of the guys from fathers-4-justice. I'm not even close to joining that lot. Believe it or not, I'd rather discuss things with mumsnet, and take the flak, than throw my lot in with them.

Also @Sassy: Er, no. They don't have plans. Even two weeks ago, bringing them back on the 13th was proposed, but only if I sacrificed two days towards the beginning of the visit (which would have meant GP's not seeing them). This isn't about family holidays, or plans they've made to visit friends. This is about shaving time, for the sake of shaving time, from our contact visit.

Moomins - thank you. Yes, she agreed to the 20th, but it was my suggestion. I and, I genuinely believe Mrs X, had no idea that we'd made a mistake. My gripe is that, given that we'd both made a mistake, and grandparents were already en-route, is 1 day at school - the last day of term, when we all remember playing snakes and ladders rather than learning - really more important than rare contact with the paternal grandparents.

Sockthief: They're 7 and 11.

Primafacie: read back, and you'll see that there have been a confusion of dates thrown around. It's, well, confusing because the changes of dates have been fast-moving. And re taking my parents camping? They're both Scout Leaders, so that wouldn't be a problem. Which prompts me to clarify that the reason my father, in particular, is restricted in his dates to visit the girls is because he has already committed to a summer camp with 20+ scouts which obviously can't be moved at short notice.

But seriously OP, why can't you drive with your parents, spend the weekend together, let your kids attend school for the last day of term, as they should and probably want, then have them from that evening onwards? You could take your daughter to have her blazer fitted while you are there. What would be the problem with that (genuine question)?

I should probably point out I was not educated in this country, but I have vivid memories of the last day of school and saying goodbye to all my friends for the summer break. I wouldn't want my kids to miss out on those memories, particularly the 11YO.

Primafacie - it's not entirely out of the question, to be honest. My dad might be up for it, but I doubt my mum would be.

But...

They'll already have driven from the Far North of Scotland, to Edinburgh (300 miles), then taken an hours flight from there to here, plus another hour from the airport to our house. In one day. To then get in a car the next day and do another 600 mile round trip - I dunno, they're in their 60's and still pretty game (see the Scout Leader bit), but that seems a lot within a couple of days.

After they've put in the effort of travelling 1000 miles purely to see their grandchildren, is it really too much to ask that those grandchildren miss one day off school, as a result of a genuine mistake by both me and Mrs X?

OP - did I misread, or is your ex in Scotland? Because if she is, then presumably your parents wouldn't need to fly at all?

Good grief.

Meh.

If exw has something planned for those days it's not unreasonable to think she could just say have something planned can you have the children at a later date

getting a calendar will only help if the exw sticks to the arranged dates, and if she pays attention to when the children break up as it seems she was the one who first suggested the 20 th

No, if you read it he has asked her for "the first part of the summer holidays" for 3 weeks to 4 August. She is pointing out that a holiday ending on 4 August is not 3 weeks. That was in March. He then says yes, I meant 11 August. Then in June, not having confirmed anything, she then says "I would suggest we go back to you picking the girls up on Wednesday 25th July and bringing them back on Monday 13 August" which implies that was her initial suggestion.

Maybe you don't think it's the OP's responsibility to make himself aware of her actual term dates - but all he has to do is look on the school website, get his dates right, and make arrangements a lot earlier.

Not that hard really.

I have been driving 200 miles up and down the country for the last 8 months.

I can't remember when i last saw a hitch hiker.

PrimaFacie - she's in Essex

and I'm in Cornwall

Hmm, I can see why this wouldn't work so well then.

I'm afraid this is still not convincing me though- your parents should not have booked flights before the dates were set and confirmed with the mother. School is not optional, you shouldn't take them out of school just because your parents are in town. You and your ex both made a mistake about term dates. That's tough luck. Hopefully next year you will get your three weeks with them.

Primafacie: Yeah, I hear what you're saying. But... contact with family is one of the factors that headteachers are allowed to take into account when deciding whether or not to grant any of the 5 days, or so, that children are allowed to take out of a school year.

the school thing well down here you can get fined if receptionst is in a bad mood and ticks the box on ed auth attendance reports so missing school is probally an acceptable reason to say no.

do you write letters to the kids and phone them lots?

i ask because if you do they will know you care and as there getting older they will start questioning mum

EchoBitch - the hitching thing has been (slightly) overstated. I did "hitch" a lift from Cornwall to Essex, but it was hitched about two months in advance. And I paid petrol money to the friend I hitched with. Mrs X had said she would pick me up from where the friend dropped me off, 15 miles away, but when I called her she said she'd been drinking and I'd have to get a taxi. That set me back about £50, which was a sizeable chunk of my budget for the weekend.

I did, however, have to hitch with thumb out from their home village to the nearby bigger town. Fortunately a friend happened to pass by, who gave me a lift. If she hadn't, then I'd have travelled hundreds of miles and only seen a brief glimpse of my kids as they shot by in their mums car.

I should restate that this was nearly two years ago, and I'm using it as an example of her making arrangements which she changes at the very last minute, leaving me casting about going "what the hell??"

sockthief - not so much with the letter writing, but yes with the phone calls. Just recently got enough funds to,er, fund a laptop that didn't threaten to catch fire if overtaxed, and Skype has become a fairly regular thing

Oh God you're such a victim Webdom. The more you post the more i have utter sympathy with your ex who must be beyond frustrated with dealing with you whilst trying to raise your dcs.

I won't post again because your attitude is really sickening. You don't seem to be able to consider the possibility that you might be at fault for this situation in any way.

See OP the whole overstating the hitchhiking thing has done you a grave disservice on this thread. As more and more is revealed (it wasn't hitchhiking it was a pre-arranged lift with friends for which you paid petrol) we begin to see the other side as more and more reasonable. So for example, if I had promised to go 15 miles out of my way to pick someone up and they said they were arriving at 6 but phoned to say they were needing to be picked up at 9 they'd be too late depending how soon I'd had a glass of wine after putting the kids to bed.

"I should restate that this was nearly two years ago, and I'm using it as an example of her making arrangements which she changes at the very last minute, leaving me casting about going "what the hell??""

As far as I can see these are examples of you making shit travel arrangements, getting stuck and then getting pissed off that your ex-wife isn't going to mummy you and sort out your travel to see your kids. You really need to sort yourself out and stand on your own two feet. You're not going to put your needs above those of your kids - that much is apparent - and when you are shown to be an ass you're immediate response is but it was her fault, she didn't help me enough, she didn't check the term dates and report back to me, she reneged on picking me up, she doesn't let me stay on the sofa anymore. I think your desire to be cool and bohemian and footloose during your DD's younger years, "hitching", fiddling for pints in pubs, putting your passion for music on the same footing as a career that would feed and clothe your children while not allowing your ego to accept that really it's a hobby with occasional paid work has just worn your ex down. Maybe a new caring supportive reliable man in her life just showed you up in an even worse light than before and that was the change in her, despite your man-to-man handshaking etc.

Haven't read full thread.

If ex's DP works offshore perhaps she is tweaking time DCs are available to you to fit in with that. His work will come first and he will not have the opportunity to change his dates, he could be doing a month on a month off. They could be wanting DCs when he is home so they can all go away or, on the other hand, want you to have DCs then so he and ex can do stuff on their own.

But I would presume you know his rotation and that you would be happy to cooperate with this.

I think op is getting a hard time on here.

It sounds like you and thyroid ex clash on fundamentals in life and parenting and that this is the main problem.

You are clearly making an effort in recent years, what with your new sensible job, getting a car to drive down to see them rather than hitching etc

I suspect the catalyst to the change in behaviour was the camping incident rather than the new boyfriend (it sounds like the timing fits from what I can tell). Aside from the rights and wrongs of it generally it clearly is some thing that the mother finds unacceptable and I think you need to swallow some pride and compromise and do some of the things her way. After all, sheas them most of the time and it can. Be disruptive when someone else sweeps in and runs roughshod over that and leaves you to pick up the prices, no matter how well intentioned on your part.

I think you need to play along with the new dates on this occasion and show her she can trust you for the sake of the long term. Although frustrating this summer, kicking up a stink could cause all kinds of problems with future contact but if you regain her rust you may be able to get back to where you were three years ago.

another thought that has occured to me, if you decide from here on to never request anything from her other than she makes the children availible for court ordered contact (no lifts no changes no anything) then she cant have an impact on anything that may cause you to rely on her.

i wont ask my ex to babysit under any circumstances because everytime i did he would say yes but then 5 mins befor he was due he would change his mind for whatever reason.

its kinda the same thing,dont put her in a position where she could use any excuse to remove her support