less than 2 weeks notice of cutting of contact...

[WeeDom]

I live some distance, about 300 miles, from my children (the reasons for this are many, and not the topic of this conversation).

Mrs. Ex and I have been divorced for about six years, During each summer holiday, we had custody of the children for exactly three weeks, and for the entire Festive Season alternating years. This worked well, mostly, although she arranged a two week family holiday, once, for halfway during the family holiday (meaning I could only have two weeks with the girls) and I made it clear that this was not ok, since it was done without consultation, and should never happen again.

Three years ago she met a new man. I've never had a problem with this and, indeed, went out of my way to meet the guy shake his hand, and congratulate him on meeting a good woman, shame it never worked out between her and I, etc. I've never been rude or impolite to him, even shaken his hand on another occasion and thanked him for being good to my children.

So... my good character ascertained, eh?

Three years ago, co-incidentally, we started to have problems. Where I would previously have slept on her sofa whilst visiting the children, and she might give us a lift here and there, now I'm not allowed near the house. At eldest childs 9th birthday, for instance, I was at a particular low ebb financially, but hitchhiked to their town to see my daughter for her birthday. I made it there, barely, but they whisked both children away to the nearest big town leaving me to (their words): "get there or miss them". Their little village isn't on a bus-route and whilst they drove past me in pouring sleet/rain, with a spare seat in their car, I had to hitch into town along a road regularly used by huge lorries - I twice had to dive into a hedge to avoid getting hit.

I hope that sets a bit of a picture - there are far more examples like this, but I shan't carry on.

So - this year.

In March, Mrs Ex invited me to mediation. Mediation was a complete waste of £180, on my part, f*ck knows how much on their part. Again, I don't know how much detail to go into here, but suffice to say it consisted of such nonsense as -

• you drove to Scotland overnight (arrival time appox 2am), once, without taking breaks I would have expected you to take. This was dangerous (Not only did the children arrive safely, have a great weekend, and get delivered back safely, but Mrs Ex and I regularly drove there and back with the children in a weekend whilst married)
• Youngest once had a dirty nappy whilst you were asleep. This shows neglect.
• You hadn't hoovered your car when you picked up/delivered the girls.

I'm sure you get the picture. Sorry about the pre-amble, but I feel I need to set that picture a bit.

Shortly after mediation (March 27th), I contacted Mrs. Ex and asked her if I could have the girls for the first part of the summer holidays:

Her reply:

"Date: Tue, 27 Mar 2012 18:01:02 +0000

With regard to the summer hols, first of all the 20th to 4th Aug is only 2 weeks.

... (some text/names removed)

I'll get back to you as soon as I can find out, but would you let me know whether you actually meant 4 August, or the following week which is the 11th. "

Oops, went the reply, thanks for pointing out the mistake. I did indeed mean three weeks.

No further contact until June.

Then: 22/06 - "For this summer holiday, I would suggest we go back to you picking the girls up on Wednesday 25th July and bringing them back on Monday 13 August."

Er - no, that's five days off the three weeks! And Granny and Grandad have flights and accommodation booked, arriving here on the 20th, departing 25th!! Why are we only hearing about this now??

Then 27/06 - "I would like your agreement that you will bring the girls back on Saturday 11 August please at a reasonable time.

You have made life more difficult as we can't get Eldest any of her new uniform from New-school until Tuesday 24th July. All the other dates the shop is open is whilst the girls are away. I can get some things, but Eldest needs to try the blazer on.

Please just send back confirmation that you will pick the girls up Monday 23 July and bring them back Sat 11 July. "

so a) We've lost at least two days with the children b) I'm responsible for the opening times of a shop 350 miles away.

But - "please just send back confirmation that... etc". She's asking me, and she's quite clear on this elsewhere (Festive Season completely removed two years ago for non-compliance!!), that I have to send her a letter confirming that I will agree to cut short our agreed three weeks. If she doesn't receive this letter, then she will make sure that she and the children are not around when I turn up to collect the children on 23rd July.

To summarise, a little - my parents are flying here from Scotland to visit their children towards the end of July. Unless I send a signed letter to my ex-wife stating that I will cut short my Contact time with my children, then neither me nor their grandparents will be allowed time together as a family.

The children are perfectly happy whilst down here, they've never been at risk. Indeed, the two DS's have been assessed by SS, because they were HE for a year or so, and the assessor seemed bored at having been sent out to such a boringly well functioning household.

Am I being unreasonable in thinking that none of this is ok?

socknickinggpixie - Yes, she knew. I was skint. I didn't take them back during the day because I view looking after the children in the evening, and waking up with them in the morning, as part of family life.

I didn't pay maintenance at the time, as I was on benefits. Hence the "being skint". I do now.

Pretty much summer hols and festive season, but occasions where I have a good month and can affordto go up for a weekend, and also half-term hols now and then.

Nappy thing - I'd been playing a gig the night before. I didn't get in until 4am. At about 8am, icklest (maybe 3?) came through to the bedroom with a dirty nappy which had been taken off and waved in my face. Nice way to wake up. It amused eldest (7, or so) so much that she told her mum about it when they got home. No, no nappy rash. This wasn't a regular occurence.

Some of them I can see her perspective, but the vast majority are cases of her sticking her nose into my family life and that of my fiancee. Should I have to undertake that I will not swear? That my friends, and indeed people we might meet, won't swear? Should she be able to make agreeing to hoover the car a pre-condition of having access to my (our) children?

No, I haven't made complaints about her. I do think she mollycoddles them too much, but I don't see it is my business to tell her how to deal with the children when she has custody. I think I deserve the same respect.

She says that she had enough of helping me out, basically. Obviously I view that differently, since this started when the new fella arrived on the scene. When I first met him, I shook his hand and thanked him for what he does for my children. She has relayed comments to me such as "he doesn't want to play happy families with you", and he himself has been incredibly aggressive towards me in person. Funnily enough, I can tell by the tone of text messages or phone conversations when he's off-shore and when he's at home.

Don't apologise for being nosey - I'm incredibly talkative (type-ative?)

• solicitor - yeah, eventually that's what happened. I got fed up with waiting two weeks for him to respond to something, and removed my solicitor from the case

I've not read this whole thread. But a holiday arranged around trying on a new school blazer!! Get a court involved. She is being totally unreasonable I think. It doesn't seem fair on you that the arrangments started being negotiated in March and are still not sorted out. I'd be furious too.

Their little village isn't on a bus-route and whilst they drove past me in pouring sleet/rain, with a spare seat in their car, I had to hitch into town along a road regularly used by huge lorries - I twice had to dive into a hedge to avoid getting hit.

They're your children and that's where they live. It's not your ex wife's job or responsibility to provide you with a bed or transport. She's not your 'friend'. And as for having your DC asleep in a tent in a pub's garden whilst you drank inside

PMSL at your lack of response to questions about the kids in the pub garden incident. Speaks volumes

'Pretty much summer hols and festive season, but occasions where I have a good month and can affordto go up for a weekend, and also half-term hols now and then.'

So no regular pre-arranged contact? And when you have some spare cash you roll up to see them?

riverboat - yes, I was playing up to that post.

I'm not naive, but I might be unorthodox. That's not a crime, nor is it a reason to keep my children from me. Part of my role, as a father, is to keep the children from harm - the children are unharmed, therefore I win at being a father :)

My fiancee and I have both been to that pub and agreed that what we did, letting the children (my two and her two, too) sleep in a tent, was perfectly reasonable under the circumstances.

Calling it a pub garden is a bit of a stretch - it's a garden, very enclosed, belonging to the landlord, behind the pub. It's not like the pub-goers walk past it to get to the pub. It's not really used as a pub garden, as such, and in fact they advertise(d) it as a camping space, not a pub garden. So, no different from letting them sleep in a tent in our back garden, in our assessment.

Also, and this isn't apparent either (sorry), the pub itself is right next door to their uncles house. He was in the pub with me, as was his fiancee - both agreed that it was perfectly safe. Other clientele included, pretty much, the landlord himself. I think that was everyone... it's not a big or busy pub

Sassybeast, best go get some loo roll, and change. That'll chafe

also, Sassybeast, I've explained my opinions on this subject, very thoroughly, here: www.mumsnet.com/Talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/a1472052-To-leave-Dd-alone-in-hotel-room

I am trying really hard to see your side of things....but...Is there any way that maybe your ex's attitude towards you has to do with the fact that you have spent most of your kids lives NOT paying maintenance, NOT making the effort to earn more money so you can see them in a proper pre-arranged way, expecting to sleep on her couch and NOT getting it together to make other arrangements, NOT learning to drive (and expecting lifts from her), and letting your kids sleep in the garden of a pub, unattended while you drink inside, at night??
No, she is not your friend. She owes you nothing. No wonder her patience has worn thin.

NarkedRaspberry - No, obviously I arrange it with Mrs. X, well in advance. Is there something wrong with a fairly ad-hoc arrangement, as well as fixed holidays?

Ah - the sound of furious back peddling. How absolutely shocking that you and your fiancee agree that leaving your kids alone in a pub garden is totally reasonable - I mean - who'da thunk it ?
Still waiting for you to clarify at what point this incident occured ?
Although actually, I really don't care that much. Good luck with sorting contact - with your attitude you'll need it

So initially we're told there were only two other people apart from you and the landlord in the pub. Then it's your uncle, his fiancee and "other clientele". I'm not surprised your ex is nervous...

NowThenWreck - where is this coming from, this suggestion that I can't drive? I just couldn't afford a car at the time.

I did make other arrangements - I got a tent, and slept in that whilst visiting. Or other friends helped out.

Re money - actually, I was working as a musician at the time. Money isn't in ready supply for musicians, generally. Also, the work isn't regular, so you can't make regular arrangements.

the other two people were the girls uncle, and his fiancee.

You know what, I give up. Sassybeast, there's a bridge somewhere that needs you back under it.

so all this hoohaa is about a few days short of initially agreed time during summer hols...yes?
I really can't see the big issue with this...ex has explained that DC's need to be back so she can organise uniforms and blazer fittings, etc....it's obviously not meant to annoy you or whatever...it's a necessary thing that has to be done...you should have finalised your holiday time with your DC's and then organised your parents visiting...dah dah..sorted!!

Everything else you are going on about here seems silly...pointless and I don't really get what the problem is???

I think leaving you to walk/hitch in pouring rain when there was room in the car is pretty mean spirited and whatnot...but...without knowing the entire circumstances of what had gone before this incident...maybe it wasn't so unreasonable at the time....
If it's bothering you to this extent then really you need to sort out something legally once and for all...even then though...there may still be times when situations occur that will need leeway around to accommodate them....a few days short may be used at another school break...have you suggested this to make up for lost time during summer....negotiate and compromise....life is never a straight road...

To be fair, the only way you're going to be able to prevent this in future is to go to court and get enforced custody of the children. However, be prepared for the earlier lack of maintenance and leaving the children in a pub garden whilst you and the other supervising adult drank alcohol to be brought up. (Hint; if it's a garden, and attached to a pub, it's a pub garden, plain and simple)

Sorry, but I would be livid if my ex took my kids camping in the back garden of a pub and left them alone while he went inside for a 'pint or two'. There would be the potential for lots to go wrong, let alone the fact that you'd had a few to drink.

It does sound like her new chap is a factor in the relationship changing and becoming less friendly, but even so, the camping episode certainly suggests that, on that occasion, you put your desire for a few pints ahead of your girls welfare.

You could have a) stayed with them in the tent and not gone into the pub or b) dropped them at their mums house if it was, as you say, her local pub. What you actually did was really risky in my opinion.

I do understand your frustration and you do sound like you try to do the right thing, but you need to be very organised when it comes to long distance and long term contact arrangements. You really need to get a contact order in place and a lot of this stuff could be sorted.

Am also wondering if, on your DD's birthday, if they scarpered when you arrived because they had something booked that they needed to get to? (table at restaurant/cinema tickets etc) and they would have been late if they'd waited for you?

Not trying to bash you while you are down btw, but trying to look at it from both sides. As I said, I understand your frustration, but I'm wondering if you're viewing everything your ex does now through the same filter, whereas some of it might be innocent/unavoidable?

I can't believe that school shops would not be open during term time. Ours is open say every Thursday pm until a little after school time every week. So it is quite easy to get anything you need the first week of term.

Also you can take in an order form and a cheque and they will drop it at reception for you to collect.

If you know the size of your child there is no need for a fitting you buy at least one size up so they can grow into it.

Sounds like a crap excuse.

Pubs always seem to do well out of people who have no money.

Tbh, the more you post, the worse you are sounding.

im confused, did you collect them on day 1 spend that night in the pub garden then return them on day 2? if this is the case surely she should have asked where you were staying,she knew you were skint.
if not and you had them for longer then im sorry to say but "as a part of family life" in that context sounds a bit preachy and a bit like a fathers for justice banging on type of a statement,one that is allmost certain to practicly invalidate some of the very good points you have made.
im allmost certain that this is going to be one of those things that you will perhaps look back on in hindsite and think opps i shouldnt have done that,she was right. imho this is a fair one perhaps it may be time for you to back down on this one and say 'ok mistakes were made it wont happen again'

hoovering the car- shes being a twat a polite fuck off is fair enough with this (im not surgesting you actually say that)

the nappy thing sounds like shes being a twat, BUT you only have your kids for a few weeks a year as routine what the fucking hell are you doing going to do gigs and not coming back till 4am,whose looking after the kids? why would you do that when you hardly see them is any gig that important? are you actually trying to give her amo? you must see how that could be a problem.

swearing well its not really ok to swear infront of kids but you cannot control what others do but it would be reasonable to expect you to highlight how its not ok if it happens infront of kids.

now this is actually directly relevent is your maintainance via the csa and do you have the deductions to your liability made due to the distance away from the kids (travel for contact clause)

as a musician with uncontrollable income each month...I imagine you make plans when you can and your ex is very accommodating and reasonable with all this...she is also the person who will have to comfort, explain and generally deal with all the DC's questions about why you haven't been to see them for x amount of time..and the when is dad coming?...why not?! and it's not fair!! and so on....your ex will be dealing with this side of things the most and it's not easy to do and it's annoying that she has to...because you can't go get a regular paying job and make regular visits and be there more often....maybe even your ex thought you may not afford them for 3 weeks in a row since you have a sketchy income ability...etc, etc, etc.....maybe she thought she was taking the strain off your wallet by making it shorter....you never know!!!

soozeedol - all this hoohaa is because I'm, pretty much, losing an entire weekend with my girls. Might not sound like much, but I'm prepared to fight for time with my children.

Cloudbase - I've got emails where she agreed to me having the children for that weekend, but she wanted time shaved off the other end of the holiday in return. The arrangement has always been half the holidays - not less, and she certainly wouldn't be prepared to bend the other way and let me have a bit more than half. It'd be lovely if it was innocent/unavoidable, but sadly it's not. It's quite calculated.

At recent mediation, the ultimate conclusion, from her, was that she is exasperated because I won't "do as I'm told" by her. That's nothing to do with the girls welfare, that's her being annoyed that I won't follow her instructions

soozedol - I'm no longer working as a musician. Haven't for quite a while, I reluctantly got back into IT. It's nothing to do with her trying to ease the strain on my wallet. I wish! :)