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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

to think this is very wrong?

215 replies

47to31in7days · 04/06/2012 02:15

www.newsrt.co.uk/news/teachers-at-salford-school-help-girl-pupil-15-have-abortion-without-telling-her-parents-488772.html

They ask for CONSENT FORMS to take the kids to a museum in the town centre during school hours...
or to rub sun lotion on little ones...
and they can't use corporal punishment on misbehaving pupils (quite rightly so IMO) even WITH parental consent, while mild smacking is still legal at home...

But when it comes to getting rid of an unwanted baby, suddenly teachers know what's best for a child who isn't theirs and the consent form doesn't get sent because the person who is actually responsible for the girl is a nuisance to be EXCLUDED from all decisions.

AIBU to be annoyed that anyone in a respected position at a school would think this was acceptable?

OP posts:
WetAugust · 04/06/2012 02:17

YANBU

CrispyCod · 04/06/2012 02:27

I think it is sad that she felt she couldn't tell her parents because she felt embarrassed and ashamed.

The law means teachers, doctors and nurses can offer sexual advice or treatment ? including an abortion ? to children without telling their parents as long as the child is considered mature enough to make the decision.

In this case I would say she wasn't mature.

OldLadyKnowsNothing · 04/06/2012 02:32

Gillick competancy, anyone?

NicNocJnr · 04/06/2012 02:54

Yep it is very wrong, I would feel I had significantly failed my daughters if they felt they couldn't come to me with something as important as this or other sexual matters. I would feel like a horrible, horrible parent.
It's sad she was put in that position without being able to talk to her parents. But whatever the wider circumstances she became pregnant, it's her body, her right to have an abortion. Yy OldLady's post above.
At least someone was looking out for this child - why not this anger at the parents?
YABU.

OldLadyKnowsNothing · 04/06/2012 03:06

YWouldBBR if teachers were actually performing terminations. They're not, they are supporting young women in making their own decisions.

Therefore, YABU.

hopkinette · 04/06/2012 03:27

Sorry but I think YABU. You might have had a wonderful relationship with your mother when you were a teen but I certainly didn't and I think I probably would have turned to a trusted teacher if I'd fallen pregnant at 15.

ItWasABoojum · 04/06/2012 03:34

I think it's great that the girl felt she could turn to her school for support, when otherwise she would have been completely alone. YABU.

MimsyBorogroves · 04/06/2012 03:41

But they're not committing a physical action. They're giving information, advice and guidance (their role) to a girl that they know well enough to believe competent enough to make a decision over her own body. YABU.

As a parent, I imagine I would feel upset too, however as that girl, I would be beyond relieved. Ultimately I know which is more important and, having been that girl, I wish this avenue had been open to me.

RubyFakeNails · 04/06/2012 04:04

YABU

I understand your points but YABU.

I would most probably feel devastated if this were my daughter, but realistically if it were me or if we didn't have a good relationship where she could talk to me I would have wanted the help that girl received.

It doesn't state the circumstances, maybe the girl felt her parents would have forced her to continue the pregnancy, or kicked her out instantly (both of which I have seen happen to teens I work with), possibly the parents are often unavailable. There all sorts of situations.

I think instead of putting it in the context of your life, you have to put it in the context of imagine you were that girl, who couldn't tell your parents, you wanted an abortion, wouldn't it be better that you got support, had someone to discuss it with and get the correct advice than trying to sort it out alone with no emotional help.

tanmu82 · 04/06/2012 04:18

Yanbu. If there are any emotional or physical repercussions in the longterm, it's not the teachers that will have to live with it. I think parents should be informed, unless there is strong reason to believe that doing so would put the girl in danger

modigliani · 04/06/2012 04:44

YABVU. The teachers didn't (as you claim) decide that an abortion was best for this girl, They supported her and HER decision to terminate.

RichManPoorManBeggarmanThief · 04/06/2012 04:59

YABU. Consent form thing is completely irrelevant because the school were not either carrying out or arranging the termination- they were just advised by the doctor that the girl consulted that this was the situation. Therefore, the girl had presumably already made up her mind that this was what she wanted to do. The school just supported her.

I would hope that my kids would feel they could tell me if this had happened (although i cant pretend I wouldnt be angry/disappointed, I would also want to support them) BUT if they couldnt, I'd be glad that they were getting support elsewhere.

Thumbwitch · 04/06/2012 05:12

I also think YABU, sorry. I understand that it would be very upsetting for the parents to find out after the fact, but the school were not going outside their remit and her wishes needed to be taken into account in this situation.
I also would be very unhappy if a child of mine felt that they couldn't turn to me for help and support but I understand her (the 15yo's) position as well.

I would imagine that the school did suggest the girl should tell her parents, as that's what you would expect competent professionals to do - but they couldn't force her and they couldn't go against her wishes any more than the doctors involved could. Glad she got the support from somewhere.

Thumbwitch · 04/06/2012 05:16

I also think, having re-read the article, that the pro-lifer's view is irrelevant in this situation and they should have chosen someone who was not so clearly anti-abortion to give a balanced view.
As for the "abortion industry" - abortions are still available on the NHS, afaik, and therefore don't have to cost the patient anything financially, so that's a load of bollocks in itself.

TheVermiciousKnid · 04/06/2012 07:13

YABU. Presumably she would have been Gillick competent and therefore it's entirely her decision to make. I agree with Thumbwitch and the other YABU-ers.

ripsishere · 04/06/2012 07:46

Another YABU from me too.

confusedpixie · 04/06/2012 08:07

Sorry, I do think YABU if the girl was deemed mature enough by teachers (people who would know her well enough) to cope with the decision, though I hope that they encouraged her to tell her parents.
My Mum told me she was disappointed in me for being bisexual at that age. I wasn't sexually active for another two years but it did break any confidence I had in her to tell her anything about my personal life.
Though I am torn on it though as I was good friends with a girl who was, at the time, one of the youngest in the UK to have had a child. In that case I think the teachers should have told her parents/guardian or even her GP, but they didn't until it was too late and she only told who needed to know because it became visible. God knows what those teachers were thinking when they consciously decided not to pass on the information!

LST · 04/06/2012 08:11

YABU OP. They SHOULD be going to their parents. It's the parents fault if they feel they can't not the teachers who are the ones offering the support.

LadyTeeAndBiscuits · 04/06/2012 08:15

YABU I'm grateful the girl had someone to help her when her parents let her down.

StealthPolarBear · 04/06/2012 08:16

Agree with nicnoc. People have strong views about abortion that they don't tend to have about sun tan lotion or school trips. To some extent girls should be protected from being unduly influenced one way or the other by parents who ae allowing their strong views to cloud what would be best for the girl. Shame, as I am sure many parents would be supportive

MimsyBorogroves · 04/06/2012 08:29

Plus, if she confided in a staff member at school and they broke the confidence, not only could this have repercussions at home (which she clearly wanted to avoid) but also, the next time she needs adult help, it means there is another person she would feel she cannot trust.

lovebunny · 04/06/2012 08:35

which teachers are these? i can't be working more than five miles away from the girl's school (probably a lot less, our intake includes salford) and we are not allowed to give advice or make such arrangements. a child safety officer might, in conjunction with the school doctor. and if its without parents' knowledge, there might be more to the story than we know.

sensuallettuce · 04/06/2012 08:55

I work in a sexual health centre near a school. Kids are allowed to visit us in school time.

When girls get pg and they are over the age of 14 and Fraser competent (no longer Gillick) they can have an abortion without parental consent.

They do however have to have a responsible representative over the age of 18 to accompany them and to be responsible for care of the young person afterwards (older sibling/family friend/aunt etc etc).

YABU to get hysterical about this - if your daughter really felt she couldn't come to you that's an issue you may need to address as a parent and you should be pleased there are services available to help girls in this position.

Threeprinces · 04/06/2012 08:57

I am surprised the consensus seems to be that you are being unreasonable OP. personally I'm very uncomfortable about the idea, I haven't got daughters but I would be gutted if this had happened to my family. Perhaps I am so horrified by it because I am very anti abortion? Perhaps those that are more pro choice may be more comfortable as they could possibly reach that decision themselves?

Thumbwitch · 04/06/2012 09:00

So, threeprinces - if you did have a 15yo DD who wanted an abortion and knew about your anti-abortion stance, what do you think she might do? Do you think she'd come to you and have to listen to your anti-abortion spiel, despite knowing her wishes? Or do you think she might go about it another way?
Interested in what your thoughts are.