to think this is very wrong?

[47to31in7days]

www.newsrt.co.uk/news/teachers-at-salford-school-help-girl-pupil-15-have-abortion-without-telling-her-parents-488772.html

They ask for CONSENT FORMS to take the kids to a museum in the town centre during school hours...
or to rub sun lotion on little ones...
and they can't use corporal punishment on misbehaving pupils (quite rightly so IMO) even WITH parental consent, while mild smacking is still legal at home...

But when it comes to getting rid of an unwanted baby, suddenly teachers know what's best for a child who isn't theirs and the consent form doesn't get sent because the person who is actually responsible for the girl is a nuisance to be EXCLUDED from all decisions.

AIBU to be annoyed that anyone in a respected position at a school would think this was acceptable?

The school's duty is to the child, not her parents. Supportive parents often forget that there are as many bad, terrible, destructive parents out there as there are helpful, supportive, loving ones. I don't see any reason she should have been forced to tell her family; I am sure the teachers will have brought the possibility up with her, and if they weren't told, I am equally sure it was for good reasons.

oh and at 15 she is a minor and below the age of consent,
hope that part was investigated.

Smartass Trills.

You know exactly what I mean! There's a big difference for many of us in how we were/felt/acted as kids ourselves and how we are as parents.

does anyone have a link?

2Shoes, please don't try that one on me. I never indicated (nor do I feel) that only those with teenaged DDs are "allowed" to think anything.

We wouldn't notify the school - the hospital must have had her consent to do that.

Again - the responsible adult would be responsible for her. It doesn't say who that was - maybe a teacher but I would never ever recommend a teacher put themselves in that position it's really inappropriate.

I would never do it in my position either.

I think that having a 15 year old yourself might cloud your judgement rather than make it clearer.

We are not talking about your child (who of course has loving and understanding parents who she can talk to, and knows that) we are talking about what should happen in the case where a teenager feels that she can't talk to her parents.

I am fully in support of Gillick competence and believe that a 15 year old who is capable of understanding the consequences (as judged by medical professionals) should be able to make their own choices.

YABU

I'm very glad that this system is in place.

Agreed, Trills. And it's not really the hospital's place to be questioning the legality of the liaison, nor the school's - unless the teen in question admits to either being raped or it being an older-than-16 man who impregnated her. Their responsibility is to her health and wellbeing - and in this case, to supporting her in her choice to terminate.

I agree with the majority and think that YABU with regard to the parents not being informed of the abortion, but I totally get your point about the contrast between consent forms etc and this situation. My 15 year old DS went on a trip to a pizza restaurant with one of his class groups and I said he would make his own way home (short walk, 7pm) This was NOT ALLOWED by the school. The teacher was proper sniffy with me and I had to go to the restaurant to pick him up. An abortion would have been fine though

"I think that having a 15 year old yourself might cloud your judgement rather than make it clearer."

Hm, maybe. I don't know. Maybe those with teen girls have aready formed opinions on this, something they've considered or has come up in conversation before so for them they have (in theory at least) opinions which are less clouded because they've been made and held for yonks.

Maybe. :)

It's not Gillick competence anymore it's The Fraser Guidelines .

All of you objecting do know that she could have had the abortion legally without the school knowing? Without decent support. Which would you rather?

Maybe I'm weird then, because I have opinions about all sorts of things that I haven't directly experienced and have very little chance of directly experiencing any time soon.

YABU
How many of us have student friends who had abortions and never told deeply religious parents. I certainly have a friend who didn't. Her mum would have been heart broken.

Sadly being 15 not 19 isn't going to change a parents life long beliefs. It just makes it vastly harder for the girl to be free to choose.

I'm not insinuating that you or anyone else hasn't Trills.

And yes, it is Fraser guidelines, as sensuallettuce has pointed out.

On another note, it really is skewed that a school must solicit a parents permission to take the kids out into town for the day but not for this. We live in interesting times.

What I was trying to say is that someone with a teenage daughter will have thought about how they would feel or what they would think if their daughter got pregnant. Which may be different to what you think should be the case for someone else's daughter, in different circumstances, with different parents.

I don't find it skewed at all. As has been pointed out, the school didn't actually perform the abortion. They helped the girl and gave her some guidance and support.

When your child is on a trip with the school, they are completely responsible for them. In this case, the child was responsible for herself, she just needed an ear or what have you to help her through it.

I hope to god if my son (I don't have a daughter) ever needed support that he didn't think he could get from me (god forbid) he would turn to a teacher he trusted instead. Better a trusted adult than another kid.

Just wanted to say I was a YABU much earlier up the thread.

I do have a teenage daughter, she is 16, this influenced my thoughts because I can only dread the situation where she couldn't talk to me (which would be my failing) and as a result had no support.

I think it's admirable that teachers provide the support some parents can't. The majority of the world is not like mn, a lot of parents are not supportive, what are their children supposed to do, just go it alone?

If you feel this strongly, homeschool.

imo this is nothing to do with a child having an abortion.
it is everything to do with her parents not being told,
so a child has a operation, and her parents are not consulted!
I could accept that if she was 18
but a 15 year old is a child.

you're legally wrong in any case, HRH.
"Informed Consent And Children
When it comes to the law on children and informed consent, English law assumes that you are an adult when it comes to medical treatment if the consultant treating you judges that you are capable and mature enough to make your own decisions. Therefore, there is no rigid age at which you are deemed capable of giving your consent or signing a medical consent form. Judgments about this will be determined by the consultant based on the nature of the procedure involved and whether or not they deem that the child in question is old enough to understand the treatment and any implications thoroughly to be able to give their legitimate informed consent."
from www.aboutoperations.co.uk/you-need-know-about-medical-consent.html here.
(my highlight)

oh well I have learnt something. thanks
but the legal age of consent (sexual) is still 16?

We quote Gillick/Fraser competencies during information sharing training and I'm sorry to say this is a classic case where this would be applied in terms of consent.