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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

to think this is very wrong?

215 replies

47to31in7days · 04/06/2012 02:15

www.newsrt.co.uk/news/teachers-at-salford-school-help-girl-pupil-15-have-abortion-without-telling-her-parents-488772.html

They ask for CONSENT FORMS to take the kids to a museum in the town centre during school hours...
or to rub sun lotion on little ones...
and they can't use corporal punishment on misbehaving pupils (quite rightly so IMO) even WITH parental consent, while mild smacking is still legal at home...

But when it comes to getting rid of an unwanted baby, suddenly teachers know what's best for a child who isn't theirs and the consent form doesn't get sent because the person who is actually responsible for the girl is a nuisance to be EXCLUDED from all decisions.

AIBU to be annoyed that anyone in a respected position at a school would think this was acceptable?

OP posts:
HRH2shoesofMn · 04/06/2012 14:47

well if you look at the link the school allowed the child time of school.
so the child was out of school with out the child's parents knowledge!!
can anyone honestly say as a parent you would be pleased by that?
that a school took that decision without notifying you?

"Teachers discussed the termination with her, checking she was comfortable with her decision. They gave her time off school and supported her as she went for the procedure."

sounds like the teachers were the ones giving advise.

DuelingFanjo · 04/06/2012 14:48

sounds to me like the school were giving support. good for them.

Original poster
47to31in7days · 04/06/2012 14:50

if it was incest the police would have been called (if it was father/stepfather), no way a hospital or school could keep that from the authorities under safeguarding and reporting of serious offences regulations, and it would have been on the news as incest like the Bradford, Swindon, etc. cases.

obviously if they believe that they should not inform the suspected abuser but should follow CP procedure and in that case the police would then question the man; there are incidences of the mother also being complicit in sexual abuse by the male, but these are rare things. Anyway the police and social services would decide how to resolve the situation once the report was made by school and they have well developed protocols for these situations.

OP posts:
LadyTeeAndBiscuits · 04/06/2012 14:57

No one said incest. Someone said abuse. There are all sorts of types of abuse. The child might have been afraid of a violent reaction, even if they didn't tell the teacher that.

Whatever it was, it certainly isn't the parents as victims. That's ludicrous.

TapirBackRider · 04/06/2012 14:59

Look, the authorities have this service because it is needed. It is used because it is needed. Making gross generalisations about the users of this service do nobody any favours.

The parents are definitely not victims in this, the girl is. She is the one who for whatever reason cannot approach them, and so turns to other responsible adults for help. What on earth do you really think the alternative would be?

Thumbwitch · 04/06/2012 15:01

She wouldn't have been allowed an abortion just on the say so of the teachers, HRH. She would still have had a proper discussion with the doctors involved prior to the procedure. The teachers/school staff would just have been the first port of call.

OP, you have serious issues to be calling the parents victims here. Victims of what, exactly? Hmm

HRH2shoesofMn · 04/06/2012 15:21

perhaps she means victims of the schools behaviour.

Original poster
47to31in7days · 04/06/2012 15:24

Actually edam mentioned incest then rape, correcting LadyTee.

Tapir, how is a 15 year old who chooses to get rid of her unborn child and keep it all hush-hush a victim of anything? Unless she had been raped, but the article does not suggest that so no-one should be speculating that way.
The victims are the parents as they were the ones who were excluded from the important decision and had secrets kept from them- and depending on your view of prenatal life, the child which never got to be born.

OP posts:
LadyTeeAndBiscuits · 04/06/2012 15:28

She is a victim of all of the adults who failed her and led her to have unprotected (so I am assuming, versus condom failure) sex and getting pregnant.

IMHO any 15 year old who becomes pregnant is a victim in some way.

And in this case? She's really the only one who matters. Her parents just don't count. Sorry.

Pro-life, OP? You haven't said...

Thumbwitch · 04/06/2012 15:29

Oh bollocks were the parents victims.
Sounds rather like you're a pro-lifer yourself, tbh OP. The 15yo got to exercise her right to choose what happens to her body. The parents don't really have a say in that so they don't really have part in "the important decision" - that was the girl's to make. And she made it - if they don't like her decision, bloody tough.

HRH2shoesofMn · 04/06/2012 15:30

you can be pro choice and still think this is wrong.
there is nothing to say that her parents would have made her keep the baby,
they weren't given the chance ot support their child.

EatsBrainsAndLeaves · 04/06/2012 15:32

But thats the point. It is not the parents decision to make. It is the girls decision to make. And if parents are vocally pro or anti abortion in these circumstances and do not recognidse that their daughter may have a different view and make different choices, then some girls will conceal abortions from their parents.

MissAnnersley · 04/06/2012 15:32

In no way are the parents victims.

The teenager made the decision to withhold this information from her parents for her own reasons as is her right to do.

Tannhauser · 04/06/2012 15:38

Bit obvious what camp OP is in.

YABVU. It was a foetus not a baby. The girl's parents have nothing to do with it- what would you have them do? Sue their daughter for lack of grandchild? Hmm

Every female should have the right to control their own body and destiny, it is nobody else's business (unless there are severe learning disabilities present, when baby might be at risk, though this is pretty rare).

HRH2shoesofMn · 04/06/2012 15:46

so it is ok that the childs parents had no chance to support her and hep her though a hard time?
that they were not at aware that their child had been off school, had a medical procedure that has risks.

I have no problem with the abortion by the way, just the way it was handled by the school.

DuelingFanjo · 04/06/2012 15:47

so you are pro life op?

EatsBrainsAndLeaves · 04/06/2012 15:48

Ideally of course the parents should know and support their daughter. And the teachers legally have to encourage a girl to tell her parents. But there are often good reasons why a girl does not want to tell her parents.

thatisall · 04/06/2012 15:50

I find the whole thing upsetting. If I were her parents, I'd be more devastated that mu dd could talk to me than I would that the school hadn't informed me of the situation.

I wonder OP why you aren't angry with the hospital who informed the school and not the parents?? There must be a reason for their decision, no?

This child has been in a really scary situation. It would appear that she received advice and support from responsible adults and potentially was encouraged to tell her parents (as she eventually did).

MissAnnersley · 04/06/2012 15:50

It wasn't 'handled' by the school. It was the girl in question who made the decision, not the school.

There is nothing to indicate how the parents would have reacted, we cannot presume they would have reacted well or badly.

All we have to go on is the girl's decision. The school and the health professionals appear to have acted as they are required to do.

Thumbwitch · 04/06/2012 15:51

HRH - you are making the supposition that the girl's parents would have supported her as much as others are making the supposition that they wouldn't. We can't know - but the girl clearly thought her parents knowing would not be to her own benefit, for whatever reason - can we not give her the credit of doing the right thing for herself, and the school and hospital the credit for accepting that she was able to make those decisions for herself?

MorrisZapp · 04/06/2012 16:14

Yabu

What emotional fallout? My closest friend had a termination at 15 and there was no significant picking up of pieces.

Likewise when I had a termination in my early 20s. I just had it, then moved on. My experience is that most women who have terminations do not suffer problems afterwards.

As for consent to have an operation, if this was an early termination it would be medical, not surgical.

And anyway - surely the parents would be picking up many many peices if their schoolgirl DD had a baby? Abortions don't exist in a vacuum - where there isn't abortion, usually there is a baby.

monkeymoma · 04/06/2012 16:16

YANBU, I found a good bleeding nearly to death after an abortion in the bathroom of a nightclub once. If it was my daughter I'ld want to be aware to look out for any complications afterwards, and to check on her regularly

monkeymoma · 04/06/2012 16:17

found a GIRL bleeding..

TapirBackRider · 04/06/2012 17:05

Other posters ^^ have answered better than I OP on how the girl is the victim in this situation, but I will clarify just for you.

The girl is the victim in this situation as she obviously cannot turn to the people who are supposed to love, care, and nurture her, in her time of need. She has, instead turned to the next best thing, responsible adults who can help her.

Having read back through this thread, you obviously have your own opinion; is there anything we can say that will change your mind?

monkeymoma · 04/06/2012 17:09

"she obviously cannot turn to the people who are supposed to love, care, and nurture her, in her time of need."

my parents were loving, caring and nurturing, as were most of my friends parents
however at 15 I would not have gone to them with this if I could avoid it and am pretty sure my friends wouldn't given the choice, which is why the choice is dangerous because after the proceedure they go HOME and noone there is on the look out for complications

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