to think this is very wrong?

[47to31in7days]

www.newsrt.co.uk/news/teachers-at-salford-school-help-girl-pupil-15-have-abortion-without-telling-her-parents-488772.html

They ask for CONSENT FORMS to take the kids to a museum in the town centre during school hours...
or to rub sun lotion on little ones...
and they can't use corporal punishment on misbehaving pupils (quite rightly so IMO) even WITH parental consent, while mild smacking is still legal at home...

But when it comes to getting rid of an unwanted baby, suddenly teachers know what's best for a child who isn't theirs and the consent form doesn't get sent because the person who is actually responsible for the girl is a nuisance to be EXCLUDED from all decisions.

AIBU to be annoyed that anyone in a respected position at a school would think this was acceptable?

I agree with NarkedRaspberry

It is legal for a 15 year old to have an abortion without the girl's parents being notified. It seems that that's what you have the problem with.

The school part has little or nothing to do with it.

there were a few girls in various tough situations that got help from my school/s which they could not or would not access from parents.

one or two lived in the school to finish their education.

I am glad schools can offer that level of support - parents don't always. the school was not making a judgement about the parents by helping this girl though - they were just acting in the pastoral role to help her do something she could have done alone.
I would guess that most likely if a 15 year old really doesn't want to talk to her parents about something like this, there is a good reason. it isn't for school - or anyone else - to second guess that reason.

I haven't read all the posts but YABU. The girl turned to adults she trusted for advice. It is not their place to inform parents.

When I was about the same age, I self harmed, once. I was being badly bullied and thought it would make me feel better. It didn't. I didn't feel that I could talk to my parents about the bullying or my feelings. My friends found out I had self harmed, they then told my form teacher. I had to have a meeting with a senior staff member. No one even confirmed with me whether I had actually done anything, just went on the word of the friends. The staff insisted I had to tell my parents or they would. My mum then started having meetings with the staff, arranging counselling etc. all without my knowledge and against my wishes. Luckily I never found myself in a position where I needed adult support again because I would never ever have confided in a teacher again and I couldn't go to my parents. I know it's a slightly different situation but there are plenty of young people who don't feel they can talk to their parents for whatever reason, and who need support. It is so important that there are people who can provide this support otherwise they would be completely alone having to deal with a potentially very scary situation.

SingingfortheMoon things have changed,
when ds did this, the school arranged counseling, and he told me.
I had no input in it.

This whole discussion about the school was then a red herring, OP, because your issue isn't really about them, is it?

OP - you have based this thread on a news article - which does not give anything like full disclosure of all material facts to hand. You've stated this thread is about this particular incident but unless you have personal knowledge of the people involved (in which case posting about them would be a grave breach of trust), you are taking your facts from a paper which will have it's own agenda in this matter, as you so obviously have.

The teen was right to do what she did. She did what women have been doing for thousands of years, seeking an abortion, seeking a measure of control & autonomy over her own body.

Again, OP, YABU to judge this girl on your own standards, limited knowledge of the events, and for not understanding that life for others is not how you would magically wish it.

"Anti-choice is not a silly term. It is a descriptive term. If you believe that abortion is wrong then you are against people being allowed to make that choice"

not necessarily, I know lots of people who think abortion (and even the morning after pill) are wrong on a personal level and so wouldn't choose it but who are also pro choice for others

""YANBU, I found a good bleeding nearly to death after an abortion in the bathroom of a nightclub once. If it was my daughter I'ld want to be aware to look out for any complications afterwards, and to check on her regularly"
oh were her parents at the nightclub o"

I don't know where you were going with this, but noone was with her, she was alone slumped on the floor in a pool of blood!
Having seen that I would NEVER be comfortable to be a "responsible adult" who accompanied a girl to an abortion, or arranged it, then dropped her off home to sit in her room alone for the rest of the evening with NOONE making extra checks on her!
I would want to help, but I don't think I could be part of it if it involved her going back to a home afterwards where noone was looking out for complications

But monkey, while I appreciate fully that it must have been a very distressing experience for you, she wasn't sat at home alone, was she? She'd gone out to a nightclub, something that she would have been advised against!
I know that she should have had someone with her for the next 24h - but she shouldn't have bloody well been in the nightclub either.

no but it could have happened anywhere, point was, she was alone! It could have happened in her bedroom but there she probably woudn't have been found till morning when she may have been dead!

In a funny way she was lucky it happened in the toilet of a night club as she was found and an ambulance called

if anyone can explain how a 15 year old girl whose parents are not told can have 24 hour supervision I will retract my YANBU

I know lots of people who think abortion (and even the morning after pill) are wrong on a personal level and so wouldn't choose it but who are also pro choice for others

Should have said "if you think abortion is wrong in general" then you are anti-choice. Obviously you can be pro-choice as a general rule even if you would not choose abortion for yourself.

but I'm talking about people who say they think it is murder, and that the MAP is also murder, but would vote pro-choice because they can also see the consequences of it being ilegal such as back street abortions, girls travelling alone abroad with crap aftercare, women who find out their babies will never have any quality of life at scans not being allowed to do anything about it if the womans own life isn't in danger.

There are people who are sensible enough to not like abortion IN GENERAL but can see that banning the choice doesn't stop it, it just makes it more unsavory!

IMO you are only pro-choice if you think people should be able to make a choice.

Not sure ow we got onto this, I was just defending the person who had used "anti-choice" because I think it is useful and descriptive.

yes but there are pro-choice voters who are also anti-abortion in theory, thinking, or even saying it's wrong doesn't automatically mean that person would vote to take away the choice

There are lots of things that I think are wrong that I wouldn't agree with being legislated against! I think fruit shoots are evil and wrong, I wouldn't support a law making it illegal to drink one!

How is MAP murder - it stops a conception occurring just the same as any other contraception - if a conception has already occurred it doesn't then get rid of an embryo or stop you becoming pregnant.

Girls aren't just left after a TOP they are strongly advised to have their responsible adult with them for 24 hrs afterwards and are given a variety of numbers to call for any problems afterwards - including 999!

I know I know
I have tried
but that's what they think! (BUT IT DOESN'T WORK ONCE YOU ACTUALLY ARE PREGNANT)
but they are still pro-choice in terms of voting

I feel that perhaps it is not the fact that the parents may not support the girl with her choice but she did not want her parents to know!

Just that - she didn't want them to know that she has sex, got pregnant or had a termination!

I didn't want my parents to know when I became sexually active (over 16). There are lots of things that we do that we don't tell our family or want them to know - I love my family and would hate to disappoint them in any way - I don't think this is their failing - I know that they would support me whatever I decided to do! I would just choose not to tell them - I understand that everyone has different relationships with their parents but honestly how many of you who have chosen to drink, smoke, take drugs and/or have sex go home and tell mum and dad all about it?

@TapirBackRider
Hmmm... You accuse ME of "black and white thinking"?

First of all, I was responding to a post that claimed that anyone who opposes the abortion holocaust is "anti-choice". I merely pointed out the irony. Pay attention. :)

Secondly, you're ASSERTING that a teen-aged girl should be allowed to slaughter her child without parental consent as though it was a God/Nature-given right.

Don't you see YOUR black and white reasoning?

It has no relevance to the issues of consent you mentioned in your OP, 47, since the school was not performing the abortion. Any 16-year-old can get an abortion without parental consent. That's been true since I was at school, a very long time ago.

I think it's nice that she could talk to her school, as her parents evidently weren't up to the job.

baka wrote Secondly, you're ASSERTING that a teen-aged girl should be allowed to slaughter her child without parental consent as though it was a God/Nature-given right.

Wow do you have teenagers baka? I guess not. Your language is so emotive (holocaust, slaughter) that I can't take your argument seriously.

Just imagine if your teenage daughter was in this situation- could she come to you for an unemotional analysis of the pros and cons of each decision? I don't think so.

I do have teenage girls and hope I am never in the position of having to support them through making a decision like this but by goodness I would support whatever decision they made.

Why do I have the right to inflict any of my opinions (religious, political etc) on a teenager? They can make their own minds up. They can ask what I think and I'll tell them but after that it is up to them. I respect them for making their own minds up having thought about a situation. I am bringing up humans not sheep.

YY, choosing the word "slaughter" doesn't exactly suggest an open, balanced attitude.

YABU

It's not the ideal situation, obviously. It's sad that a 15yo had to go through a termination without the support of her family. We don't know that they wouldn't have been supportive if given the chance, but the fact is she didn't want them involved. That should be her choice.

Baka The fact that you use the words slaughter and holocaust show just what your opinion on this subject is, and it is obviously very black & white.

I'm asserting, and stating loudly that a teen should have the right to decide whether she should carry on with a pregnancy, or seek an abortion. It is her body, it is her right. Am I to understand that you would deny her the ability to do so?

"abortion holocaust" and "child slaughter"?? Get a grip, for goodness' sake!! What appallingly OTT language to use. Seriously, if you want to convert people to your narrowminded cause, using language like that is NOT the way to do it - it just makes you sound like an emotionally overcharged raving loon!

Is this the same poster who had a thread in education about how children shouldn't confide in teachers regarding sexual matters without the consent/knowledge of their parents?

Anyway YABU