to think that "refrigerator mothers" = ones on the ASD spectrum?

[Anna1976]

AIBU to think that people are missing the point?
In today's BBC news article about France's psychoanalytic treatment of autism, there is this little box of explanation:

From the 1950s to the 1970s, autism was frequently attributed to emotional frigidity on the part of the mother. In a 1949 paper, psychiatrist Leo Kanner suggested "parental coldness, obsessiveness, and a mechanical type of attention to material needs only" left children in "refrigerators" and caused them to withdraw and "seek comfort in solitude". Some experts who believe autism is a psychological disorder continue to regard poor parenting as the source of the problem.

Parental coldness, obsessiveness and mechanical attention to material needs, to me, sounds like those parents may have had ASD and been struggling to cope. As someone with Asperger's I completely recognise the feelings that lead to me appearing cold, obsessive and mechanical - and if one thing would induce those feelings reproducibly, it would be enforced societal expectation to have babies and nurture them like a perfect 1950s housewife, when all i wanted to do is get away and have some peace.

AIBU to think that it would be appropriate to acknowledge that ASD is a pervasive developmental disorder, but also that it does have a genetic basis - and thus note that "refrigerator mothers" could (do) actually exist and could benefit from help? If the parents don't get the basis of what they're teaching their kid, it's not going to work well... I think we need both the neurodevelopmental side, and the psychosocial side of the explanation, given that most of the useful strategies in later life are psychosocial ones.

I'm absolutely not saying that it's refrigerator mothers' fault their kids have ASD - I'm saying that it would be important to look at the parents and whether they also need some of the strategies being taught to their kids.

There has been research done which indicates that people on the spectrum are much more empathic than NT people. So much so that it results in emotional overload and the 'shutdown' that observers misinterpret as lack of empathy.

i agree..my DD REALLY HATES it when I am upset

Yes - I think in autism and the myth of being alone Lucy talks about a time when she was out with her PA. She saw a McD's and typed 'don't let me force you to go to McD's' as she forced her PA through the door. It was like 'McD's=must go' and she had little control over that.

Ds1 is the same. I always assumed he loved watching washing machines, he watched cycle after cycle after cycle. Sometimes he would cry whilst watching them but I just thought it was a bad day. Eventually he worked out that he could get me to lock the kitchen door when the washing machine was on - the he didn't have to watch it. Next he could cope with a shut door, and now he can have an open kitchen door and not have to watch the machine. It was a revelation to me (and maybe him) to discover that he didn't actually want to watch an entire washing cycle, his body gave him no choice.

When Lucy went to university she had to choose one that didn't have straight roads as she couldn't turn around/off straight roads (or something like that - it's been a while since I read it)

It also revealed to me why I couldn't get ds1 under trees on sunny days. I'd just assumed he was being difficult (the reaction she describes was identical to his, so I assume was for similar reasons - that the sun shining through the leaves broke up the ground meaning she lost her sense of her body in space - again or something like that, I need to re-read).

sounds fascinating..hopefully will get some insight into why my DD doesn't seem to want to go anywhere these days and lots of things unsettle her all of a sudden

My word, I'm like that with McDs. Can't stand the stuff and thankfully there isn't one in the town I live in because I can't pass one without going in. Twice, I've managed not too and it felt like I'd won the lottery.

I'd like to thank Anna for starting this thread - my sister rang me the other day, very excited, because she had seen a film about someone coming to realise that their father was on the AS - and suddenly what I had been saying to her about our mother began to make perfect sense as she began to map her behaviour against those of the father in the film. It made perfect sense to my uncle when I mentioned it to him - as he has an autistic son, but my sister has no experience of ASD.

If the term "refrigerator mother" were to be applied to anyone it would be to mine. I grew up thinking that displaying emotions was a very odd thing to do and not at all 'normal' - it happened in films, not real life, a bit like fairies :)

My siblings and I are still coming to terms, I think, with the impact of that. Two of us displaying AS tendencies (nature or nurture? ) and one not at all. I think it's an important discussion to have and I certainly think that many of those attacking the OP really didn't get what she was trying to say. For me it's liberating to recognise that my mother probably was on the AS as it explains so much about how she behaved and acted, and for the sibling who has been most angry with her over the years I think it's bringing a level of acceptance that our mother was not a bad person choosing not to display affection, but someone who actually did a bloody good job in the circumstances.

Why is it so appealing Kladdkaka..would be interested to know?

My DD is like this with IKEA..she hates busy noisy shops except there where she is compelled to go in

No idea. Like I say, don't even like the food. Maybe it's linked to obsessions, rituals, reading between the lines and a lifetime of advertising? In the same way that my daughter used to have full on meltdowns when I bought Asda's coffee, sobbing about it not being 'the beans, the blend, the taste', and never drinking coffee herself anyway.

In ds1's (and Lucy's) case it's compulsive behaviour. Ds1 has to sniff people, Lucy has to run her fingers along seams of jeans (again iirc). The washing machine is the same, and often ds1 will get what we call stuck in a sequence pattern of movement. It happened a lot when he was little - he would run back and forward in new places between fixed objects. He doesn't do that so much as he's got older but yesterday for example was stuck studying and opening and closing windows.

Saintlyjimjams

That's absolutely fascinating.

The study of seperated twins pretty much debunked the "refrigorator mother" theory.

I think its harder for a child with autistics parents to get opportunities to develop social skills. With the under fives its the mothers who are socialising and deciding who gets invited. If a mother has no social skills then it is likely her children will not get invited to parties during the early years of school.

Sad to say, I think that children with special needs are at higher risk of child abuse. Frustrations of coping with a difficult child can be enough to make lots of people snap. In past children were physically punished for autistic behaviour and infact in the US electric shocks are still used. Child abuse is bad for NT or SN children.

If you read this article you realise that the French are fairly kind to autistic children in comparison to this place.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Judge_Rotenberg_Educational_Center

Sadly lots of people think that its Ok to abuse autistic children.

loiner you may have behaviours which are similar to people on the spectrum, but you are either born on the spectrum or not - you can't be 'nurtured' into it. That said, I'm sorry to hear about your experiences, it sounds like you had a tough time.

I don't agree that you are necessarily born onto the spectrum. I don't believe ds1 was born autistic. I do think he was born with a predisposition that made him more likely to develop autism (as happened). I strongly suspect that ds3 was born with the same predisposition. But he is 7 years old and NT.

Although yes, some people are born with autism and whilst attachment disorders for example can share many features with autism they're not the same thing.

ReallyTired - The person is restrained and forcibly told to misbehave: if the student pulls away, he is shocked; if he follows the order to engage in the risky behavior, he is shocked even more.

What the fucking fuck???!!!

That's not treatment, it's torture!

I think that's what I said Wilson :) - not to be too pendantic, but if it is a spectrum then there are people at both extreme ends. What I don't know is whether some of the behaviour exhibited by 2 out of the 3 of us are nature ('born on the spectrum" but maybe at one end?) or nurture, learned behaviour. I have to say I am more inclined to think "nature" given that all 3 of us had pretty much the same "nurture". Also one of us has a child that has struggled with OCD so I think the issue of heredity in these character traits is fascinating.

I have a friend who has alcoholism running in her family - sometimes down a family tree (so you could argue nurture) but also across it, springing up in distant cousins who have never met and heard about in stories of long dead relatives - it is quite staggering to me as it's not something that appears in my family at all (to my knowledge). I think the study of the influence of our genetic makeup really still has a long way to go.

AmberLeaf - no interested in as in 'interested in'

I think it might have been useful for the professionals involved to have considered ds' development in the context of his broader family - my brother is certainly on the spectrum, as is one of my nieces & my nephew. Though they have very different difficulties to ds (lots of sensory issues whereas ds' still has major language problems). One of my other children had a very similar pattern of language development (& more sensory issues) to ds though she 'caught up' & functions as nt I think. tbh the vast majority of profs who've been involved with ds have been incredibly ignorant.

I'm interested if there is a formal way of assessing the broader family or if it relies on the parents of the child being assessed bringing issues up. My family seems very 'normal' to me & it is only really now after my ds' diagnosis that we (family as a whole) are beginning to see traits. ds has certainly benefited from being born into an accepting (& understanding) family (same can't be said for the in laws I'm afraid :( ) but it may also have delayed me seeking input because his behaviour was familiar to me.

diogenidae sorry

Who did you see re your DS?

My DS saw initially the SALT and then community paed, Ive known of people that saw different HCPs during DX period, maybe it depends on who you see?

Am remembering now that my other 2 DS were also discussed as they too certainly had traits.

I think ive been really lucky with the professionals involved with my DS diagnosis and ongoing care [schooling], they asked me questions about my own childhood/schooling, im sure she asked if id had any problems at school?

The questions were asked anyway and I have a habit of talking if given the platform! so she learnt lots about me!

diogenidae - you could build your own pedigree map. Sorry if this link is a little too basic for you, it just happened to be the first I found with technique explained.

If you can map your pedigree for a certain trait, it really helps genetic researchers who may then go ahead and map the genes for you where possible.

I think this is really interesting and don't think the op should be criticised. I am sure that my db has some form of asd , and my DM did not know what to do with him when we were growing up. I am sure that my DM has some sort of issues herself as she is a very nervous anxious person, so I do not think it is her fault that my db turned out how he is, but maybe it is due to hereditary factors.

GB, your post about finding it odd when autistic people discuss empathy/theory of mind. Most of the posters on here have not declared whether or not they have an ASD. I think what you have must be more psychic powers rather than empathy.

I was one of the first posters on here arguing that people with ASD do have TOM and empathy. I don't have an ASD.

Ah that link RT gave- yes that is awful.

And YY to people thinking it's OK to abuse asd kids; indeed have police due tonight as the taxi driver did just that to ds1 on way to school.

I agree with the OP (if I am understanding properly) My son is 'on the spectrum' but so slightly that they will not diagnose him however he has issues making friends and socialising. He does not cope well with it at all. Now I have been the same my whole life and it is only now that I am realising why. I can try and help him with the social aspects but How? I battle with it myself. I am him... in so many ways. I do not have the correct skills to help him and I believe that the fact that I am the same an and unable to help him socially does not help his situation.

I know 2 families where at least one parent is ASD as is at least one child so could easily be genetic.

yes, I think the one thing all posters on this thread will agree on is that JR centre is appalling and should be illegal.

AfricanExport - if you feel up to it, you can discuss concerns re:your child and socialising on the special needs board, many people on there will be able to relate and give advice.

Isn't there also a historical/cultural influence on what we would describe as a 'refrigerator mother'? As far as I can see, in the past a good English upper class mother turned her children over to the servants as soon as possible after birth and sent her children off to board from 6 or 7.