to think that "refrigerator mothers" = ones on the ASD spectrum?

[Anna1976]

AIBU to think that people are missing the point?
In today's BBC news article about France's psychoanalytic treatment of autism, there is this little box of explanation:

From the 1950s to the 1970s, autism was frequently attributed to emotional frigidity on the part of the mother. In a 1949 paper, psychiatrist Leo Kanner suggested "parental coldness, obsessiveness, and a mechanical type of attention to material needs only" left children in "refrigerators" and caused them to withdraw and "seek comfort in solitude". Some experts who believe autism is a psychological disorder continue to regard poor parenting as the source of the problem.

Parental coldness, obsessiveness and mechanical attention to material needs, to me, sounds like those parents may have had ASD and been struggling to cope. As someone with Asperger's I completely recognise the feelings that lead to me appearing cold, obsessive and mechanical - and if one thing would induce those feelings reproducibly, it would be enforced societal expectation to have babies and nurture them like a perfect 1950s housewife, when all i wanted to do is get away and have some peace.

AIBU to think that it would be appropriate to acknowledge that ASD is a pervasive developmental disorder, but also that it does have a genetic basis - and thus note that "refrigerator mothers" could (do) actually exist and could benefit from help? If the parents don't get the basis of what they're teaching their kid, it's not going to work well... I think we need both the neurodevelopmental side, and the psychosocial side of the explanation, given that most of the useful strategies in later life are psychosocial ones.

I'm absolutely not saying that it's refrigerator mothers' fault their kids have ASD - I'm saying that it would be important to look at the parents and whether they also need some of the strategies being taught to their kids.

I don't like the word 'autie' either but lots of parents of children with autism use it. But then I don't even like the word autistic, so perhaps it is me.

A point that i should have made right at the beginning is that I am assuming that it is possible to generalize the observation that in some (not necessarily all) families where there is at least one autistic child (as opposed to one with aspergers), there will probably be one or more adults with asperger type traits.

Then there are all the other families where that isn't the case. Those families are not the ones I'm talking about. I know autism is a huge spectrum and different factors matter in different cases. I am also aware that I don't know whether one can generalize what i said in the previous paragraph.

Sorry, I didn't make my previous post clear (there's no way to edit, is there?). That research on antibodies leading to overwhelming sensory input is on Chronic Fatigue Syndrome. But as women with CFS and autoimmune illnesses are apparently more likely to have autistic children, I was thinking that research could maybe explain why, like if the foetus developing brain is also exposed to this antibody that damages the sensory filter, because sensory problems seem to be very common in autism, at least according to the SN board here.

Mimi I can't let your post go unanswered - your son's PDD is NOT due to your PND. That's why 'theories' like the refrigerator one are so nasty - because as parents we are all too ready to blame ourselves for our children's issues. I don't know much about PDD but there is a neuro element to all of these spectrum-type disorders - that's why we use Neuro-Typical. Your son was born with his brain and was cared for well during his first year. It did not cause his issues.

And many people do only pick up on speech delays around the 2 year mark because it's then that you go 'hang on, this really is more than just being slow to reach a milestone'.

Please take care of yourself and come on over to the Special needs boards if you want any support or specific advice.

My PND made me cold towards DS and I made up for it in material ways. DS shows no sign of ASD. I spent a lot of time feeling guilty and thinking I would have harmed DS in some way.
Reading the OP has saddened me and brought up a lot of old feelings.

Anna under the new DSm Aspergers and Autism cease to be different entities

Just fyi

CFSKate i think that's quite possible; wrt to sensory a lot of people were upset when DSm failed to use it fully but it is popular now in some fields to talk about ASD as a Quad (including sensory) rather than a triad, and I must say i like that usage.

Oh it's called quad now? When I first came across it it was called the fourth triad

Grossly generalising but I can't see many in the ASD world putting up with that for long

I'm NT and can't deal with a fourth triad!

OP if you want to chat actually then PM me for email address. I am a parent diagnosed with aspergers as an adult. I generally try to avoid talking to other adults with ASD at least ones who are male on the internet and irl actually because I have had bad experiences with some of them being racist and homophobic and going psycho when challenged on that (I had to actually leave an irl support group because I pointed out that someone was being homophobic but the leader seemed to think it was ok for him to do that because he was autistic ffs) but you seem ok.

Body of Eeyore, I had PND too and DD is super affectionate (although she has fairly severe ASD which incidentally was caused by a chromosome microdeletion NOT inherited from us), so don't beat yourself up.

LMAO Starlight / Wilson

When your stuck at home with a baby toddler that doesn't interact or appear to need you, that has repetitive behaviours that irritate and doesn't behave appropriately or how expected when out you can become very isolated and withdrawn as a parent.

I have also found that the best carers for DD are those who I feel are probably on the spectrum themselves, they really understand her and are in tune with her.

which sort of destroys the refrigerator theory immediately, in my eyes

I've actually had the reverse problem I suppose to the current thing of saying autism is all neurological in that because of the diagnosis it was assumed that my parenting would be inadequate even though it demonstrably was better than that of most NT parents in similar socioeconomic situations (which was later admitted by ss), and that any autistic traits in dd1 were caused by my parenting rather than by it being inherited from her father and I. I actually think most ASD parents are better than most NT parents because they do actually follow rules e.g. not putting coke in baby bottles etc which lots of NT parents round here seem to do. But then that's a very low minimum standard for parenting too. OTOH lots of parents who are shit don't lose their children to ss because ss like them socially even though they do things wrong like the above or like sitting their kids in front of telly all day. Everything from your right to care for your own children to whether you are given a job currently depends on social conformity above all else imo. Ability is not even given a look.

i also find they take the job of caring for DD very seriously indeed, which is a good thing in my eyes.

Wibbly that is awful that they assumed that and I am glad you proved them wrong :)

That's very interesting Wibbly

Out of interest, has anyone read We Need to Talk About Kevin?

AmberLeaf I'm interest in this "family background/members were certainly looked at"

because that certainly wasn't the case in 2009 when my ds was diagnosed with ASD. There weren't any questions asked about his siblings' development let alone that of my husband & I or any other family member. Within my ASD parent peer group I know of no-one who had those sort of questions asked. As it happens while both dh & I are nt with no ASD traits but there is the broader phenotype within my family.

ds is incredibly affectionate & demonstrates empathy throughout the day - his difficulties lie with emotional regulation (he feels everything very strongly) & expression (still significant language delays). I don't 'believe' in autism as a single entity & fairly often wonder what use there is in the term at all - beyond giving lazy professionals a short hand to churn out useless generalisations.

Dio when i write essays at uni I have to use 'autism's, referring to the wider group of social communication disorders that fall under DSM criteria.

properly applied it's a useful term but certainly misunderstanding it can have negative effects

The 'refridgerator mother' theory is one of the nastiest reasons for autism that I have ever heard and I am glad it has been disproven. Unfortunately some people still think it, thanks dmum, and you starting a whole new debate will see some people picking out that as the cause of a friends autistic child.

I get your link with asd mums being a 'refridgerator mum' I think but this is still an outdated and very hurtful phrase to bandy about

Disabilist words are nasty, but surely we should not silence victims of disabilism?

Which is what it is, if we get to a point that people with disabilities/SEN cannot report the disabilist insults used against them.

But hey ho let's not stifle debate eh?
How about I start bandying about that certain members here caused brain damage in their kids by their behaviour? Because that is what the OP is doing.

Refrigerator Mother is an outmoded, outdated theory. It's been proven to not be true. Which is why I find speculation on whether it is or not incredibly offensive.

Debate on other causes - genetics, auto immune links, environmental links all fine. Do not blame me and mothers like me for our childrens' BRAIN DAMAGE.

Would you (the collective you) find that acceptable aimed at yourselves?