To be unsurprised that so many women get post natal depression?

[toptramp]

My late mum had post natal depression after a horrendous birth during which she almost died. Couple that with the shock of becoming a new mum and the general lack of staus that society offers mums (especially single mums like me) and I am not surprised that so many of us get so down. It is a wonderful time but it also so tough. What can be done about it?
My birth wasn't great (I had a c-section)and I did it without a dp yet I didn't get pnd like my mum did. I did get the shock of my life mixed with a lot of love!

It's often the fact that people believe they are being 'weak' which stops them from seeking help and then the PND spiralling out of control.

I don't know what made you write that dreadful post trois. What you went through sounds like a nightmare and yes, I would say you were a strong person to go through all that. I think your attitude towards PND is very damaging and hope nobody who is suffering believes it.

Seeking help as soon as you can is the best thing to do and shows you are strong person.

Some people are weak, some get on with life

WOW! I don't call having depression weak!

I'm not surprised lots of mothers get PND. And I'm pretty sure that in the majority of cases it's nothing to do with hormones. (Medical opinion seems to be with me on this one.) This is the situation: you've just done something very physically demanding, painful and exhausting, ie give birth. You don't have time to recover from it, but for the next several weeks, probably months, possibly years, your sleep is interrupted every single night, maybe two or three times. You spend hours every day doing dreary work, changing nappies, cleaning up sick. Often you have to listen to a baby screaming and it goes through you. You no longer go to work and have human company. You are tired and lonely and bored. You no longer have your own income.

No wonder you're bloody depressed.

Birdsgottafly makes a great point. A distinction needs to be drawn between PND and a perfectly justified reaction to how UK society treats mothers. Please note I'm not saying PND doesn't exist!

A friend went from satisfying job and happy pregnancy to a horrible last few weeks (sunny weather, active kicking baby = no sleep) to a traumatic birth, a horrible ward experience, and then home. Only she can stay at home (maternity pay is only for women, obv) and she had a baby that refused to be put down or left in any way - screaming in a way that I wouldn't believe unless I'd witnessed it. She essentially had a baby attached to her for about four months. Her husband works long hours because they've lost an income and her only way out was to places like Rhythm Time where they talk to her as though she's six. It sounds bloody horrible, to be honest.

She confessed to the HV that she was finding it hard, but all they wanted to talk about was PND. She doesn't need ADs because she's not depressed - she's having a perfectly sensible reaction that any human would have after four months with about three hours of sleep a night and a life that is so suddenly out of step with what it's always been.

There's an unacknowledged 'gap' I think, between PND and this sort of stuff, brought about by the fact that we as a society project this idea of motherhood as perfect and easy, when it's not the case at all.

I think, OP, that a lot of women are told they have PND when they don't (some do, of course, it does exist and shouldn't be denied) because it's the only way society can cope with mothers turning around and saying 'do you know what, this is shit'.

I really want to add my voice here, but much of what I believe and have gone through has been spoken about really effectively already.

So I'll add what I think would have helped me: mainly, I think, the feeling that it was ok, and the ability to talk about it to friends / family without worrying that they would look down on me for it. I had a wonderful GP who referred me to a specialist PND unit, but I have never liked counselling because I have an unavoidable tendency to 'put a brave face on', so I didn't go.

Eventually I tried to commit suicide and ended up in hospital, so DH and my parents clocked that maybe it was a bit more serious than I was letting on. Maybe if I had felt more able to talk about it to the people around me, it wouldn't have got so bad. It's attitudes like that of trois that stop people from being able to open up about PND, so I talk about my experience as openly as I can in the hope that it might make at least one person think a differently, or make just one woman with PND realise that she's not alone.

Maybe there should be a campaign along the lines of the current MN 'we believe you' for victims of rape? It seems that issues affecting women never get enough air time, which means that very little is done to change societal mores which surround and marginalise them?

I'm so glad I didn't read this thread when it only had two posts.

I've suffered from depression, ante-natal depression and PND, it must be a bloody wonder I can support my own body weight being that weak

I have much I could add to this thread but too hard to write it all on phone, so will go off compose my thoughts and come back later.

But OP for what it's worth YANBU I wonder how much having babies later in life impacts, within my peer group there are a lot of successful women, who are well in control of their lives then along comes pregnancy and babies and all of sudden life is much more unpredictable.

Agree with leetle still after years working in mh it saddens me that even a small minority of people hold the views that trois has expressed on this thread.

Some information from mind if anyone is interested

www.mind.org.uk/help/diagnoses_and_conditions/post-natal_depression

VictorGollancz is 100% right. It is normal to find the life changes associated with having a baby hard. And finding it hard doesn't mean that you don't love your baby and aren't a good mother. It just means you're human. And there is huge pressure to live up to an ideal of motherhood (on mumsnet it tends to be a breastfeeding, attachment parenting, BLWing with organic carrot sticks ideal, elsewhere its no doubt different).

VictorGollancz: "She confessed to the HV that she was finding it hard, but all they wanted to talk about was PND. She doesn't need ADs because she's not depressed - she's having a perfectly sensible reaction that any human would have after four months with about three hours of sleep a night and a life that is so suddenly out of step with what it's always been."

If she's not depressed, what is she? You described what was happening to her, but you didn't say what her reaction was.

The problem, in my view, is that we've taken something that is a feeling and turned it into a "thing". So we're told that you can suffer from PND as you you would suffer from an illness. Now I think there is a minority of women who have a genuine hormonal reaction after giving birth. But for most women diagnosed with PND, they are depressed, sure, but they are depressed for a set of reasons that would make anyone depressed - sleep deprivation, loneliness, feelings of being trapped. If you took away that situation - gave them some help, let them have a decent night's sleep, etc, they'd probably stop feeling depressed. Instead what we do is we tell them they have an illness and give them some tablets to make them feel better.

Similarly, I know people who have been diagnosed with depression after they've been bereaved, and given anti-depressants. But feeling depressed is a normal reaction to bereavement. It's not an illness.

It's getting worse, if you look at those girls on the big fat gypsy programme they might not have much of a life but all that is expected of them is to care for their children, homes and men.
Every woman I know does that before 7am, then goes off to be a captain of industry, brain surgeon or solicitor, before returning at 6pm to bake homemade food and sweetly read stories to their immaculate offspring, sounds like I am talking the piss but i'm not that's what these women think they HAVE to do. No wonder we're fecking knackered.

I'm with VictorGollancz. It's as though the medical profession has to put a label on you.

At 6+2 I am so exhausted I feel I've got an ME relapse (had it for 4 yrs with two minor relapses). I'm finding that very hard and it has got me down a bit (as you'd expect it would anyone). I'm hopeful I can talk about this when I meet my midwife next week without her talking about ante-natal depression.

I do think that women need a lot of support when they have a baby and many don't recieve it.

I'm lucky that I am close to my family and my mum came and stayed for a week after ds1 was born. She did all the nappy changes for me for a week, took the baby often so I could sleep during the day, cooked all the food and just let me rest. She also left me with food in the freezer.
Dh took his paternity leave after my mum left so he was around for 2 weeks after that.
After those 3 weeks, I felt physically better and better able to tackle the feelings of isolation and loneliness I got when dh went back to work and I was left on my own in a place far from family and friends.
I went to a post natal exercise group when ds1 was 6 weeks and made a friend who met up with me for walks in the park and play groups from which we made more friends.

I am so relieved that it panned out that way as for those 3 weeks when I had no adult company during the day I felt so low and was often in tears. Being able to have people to talk to and make new friends made the world of difference to me.

There's a difference between being sleep deprived, knackered, shocked etc at the arrival of a new baby / your new role in life and PND depression though. Yes, all these things have an impact. But there is a difference and partly I think when some people who feel, understandably, 'down' about all this stuff refers to it as PND then it takes away understanding from those who really suffer. This helps substatiate myths & views like those posted by trois.

I think depression is impossible to understand, unless you've really been there. You can be as empathetic as you like, but there's no way you can understand the complete inability you feel to do anything about it. It really stops you functioning on almost every level. It's not just feeling a bit fed-up ( which is completely normal). Also when you have had a depression it's good to remind yourself that feeling down and fed-up is actually quite normal too as often your recations to your own emotions are a bit skewed by that point! And you can be terrified it's the beginning of another 'ptach'. I think this can lead to a growing awareness that, for me anyway, is the silver lining.

Agree with hackmum that there are probably two aspects

-the hormonal/chemical
-the situational

and they need to be dealt with in different ways. I had a touch of the latter (dont want to diminish anyone else's PND by claiming I had proper PND, but had some very low weeks where I just couldnt cope with the crying/constant need anymore). That was solved by having lovely friends I could confide in and Dh being really great and then the situation changed, DS became easier and I felt better.

My friend had something more to what "LeQ* describes, and was almost certainly more chemical and far more serious. Similarly there are sometimes threads on here from OP's who are very far beyond "I'm tired and lonely and fed up" and obviously need professional help.

However, I think we do have to avoid a situation whereby if you're not completely revelling in new motherhood then you must have PND.

your reactions even.

your recations may be skewed ( and your spelling too obviously!) :o

I had absolutely zero support. I was a single mother and left completely on my own to cope. But I didn't get PND. In fact I was very happyl. So I do not think there is a simple answer. However, I did have a relatively natural birth and I did breastfeed - am wondering if that helps?

Oh troisgarcon you are so controversial Yawn...

I had a homebirth and breastfed dc1 janelikesjam, I live a long way from my family. PND got me the bastard. I had an elcs with dc2 and have been fine. I don't think there is one thing, it just happens.

Exhaustion definitely contributed though.