To be unsurprised that so many women get post natal depression?

[toptramp]

My late mum had post natal depression after a horrendous birth during which she almost died. Couple that with the shock of becoming a new mum and the general lack of staus that society offers mums (especially single mums like me) and I am not surprised that so many of us get so down. It is a wonderful time but it also so tough. What can be done about it?
My birth wasn't great (I had a c-section)and I did it without a dp yet I didn't get pnd like my mum did. I did get the shock of my life mixed with a lot of love!

Am probably cross-posting here but troisgarcons, you know nothing about the MH issues you pretend to care about if you think it's a matter of 'getting on with it'. If you're able to get on with it, by definition you don't have PND or any other mental health problem. The key is in the term mental health: the problem is with the mind, not the circumstances you're in.

I had a few red flags on the PND questionnaire the health visitor does because of personal circumstances but I never was depressed at all. I actually was on a kind of high after DS's birth and was so glad to have him here alive and well. Another woman might have had all the social support network and prior medical history that would have suggested no PND but still ended up with PND just because that's how the birth hormones happened to affect her.

Am I a tough cookie while she's a pathetic sap? No, we just have different brain chemistry. She would possibly be helped with ADs and counseling. I didn't need help and still don't but I'd never look down on those who do. Depression is something that can just strike when you least expect it and, yes, sometimes you can shake it off; other times you need support to do so.

Katie that was not a dig at all it was meant to be self deprecating and I'm really sorry it seems it came out wrong!! I felt like I was spouting off only using my own experience (which of course makes me an instant expert) and you really sounded like you had a more professional knowledge. Sorry!!

Oh gosh no, I'm sorry. I'll get my post withdrawn.

I'm not an expert by any stretch of the imagination. Cod-scientist me

I reckon it's a chemical thing and exacerbated by circumstances. I'd had a history of depression and was well prepared, but pnd was different in its symptoms and shocking because it happened despite me being so happy to be be with my son after fertility issues and several miscarriages. That's where the counseling comes in imo - it's especially hard to accept pnd, more so with all these media images of perfect mothers and glowing happiness.

My feeling is that post-birth hormones drive women wappy. There's a technical term. Wappy.

I was jolly lucky in that my post-birth hormones took the form of post-natal euphoria (a recognised condition) rather than post-natal depression,

Post-natal euphoria is rather odd though. I used to run a few miles. Then, when DD was born. I'd run the same few miles. Pushing DD. In a pram. Mental, really.

I think there's elements of both hormones and circumstance. There's definitely a link between lack of support at home and PND, though it's not as simple as cause and effect. Ultimately, though, it doesn't matter. The one thing there definitely isn't a link with is 'weakness'.

Trois,you're not usually so nasty.Anything wrong?

I suffered much longer with PND than I should have because I thought I was being weak. :(

OP, sorry your thread got derailed. I'll post something more useful when I'm calmer.

troisgarcons I feel very sorry for you. You sound like you had a terrible time and so much to cope with. Can I ask did you answer tge pnd questionnaire completely honestly? You found to me like someone who is not coping. You sound like someone who is trying to convience themselves rather than a bunch of other people who really won't be bothered and might actually be able to help and support you. Maybe it's time you stopped and looked at yourself. Is there really any need to be so hurtful for no apparent reason than to get attention? With all that going on you must have been pretty near tge bottom in tge priority stakes and looking at tgat there doesn't seem to have been many who would be bothered how you were feeling. How are things now?

I think that tge whole network of support and help for worn needs to change. But I don't know a way tgat would be workable tbh but I can see things getting a whole lot worse before something is done. I also believe if given better support/advice/preparation then there would be less intervention in birth.

I think more honesty about how tough the first year can be would help, partly from official sources (enough of the smiling mummy, smiling newborn ads already!) but primarily from women themselves.

I consider myself very fortunate in finding a really lovely baby group where people frequently turned up in tears because of lack of sleep, feeding problems etc and everyone was really supportive. Screaming baby would be rocked by the leader/ another mum whilst sobbing mum got tea, cakes and sympathy. There was no need to pretend that your baby only fed every 4 hrs and slept through at 6 wks. Of course, I still had nights where I'd be sitting in my nursing chair at 3am with refluxy DS and he'd be crying and I'd be crying and I'd think "why the hell did I do this?" but just being able to actually express those things to people in RL who would not think I was an awful person for wanting my old life back saved my sanity. I also got really good "It will end. Do what works" advice from my friends with older children.

I dont live in the UK, but I've noticed an (admittedly anecdotal) difference between people who get a good NCT group and those who don't gel with theirs. Therefore, whilst I think professional support it good, what new mums really need is good friends.

I don't think anyone can really understand PND or any form of depression unless they have actually suffered from it or someone close to them has done so.

If someone is in agony from back pain you can see that they are suffering but you will not quite know how they feel. However, because the cause is more visible, many people find it easier to empathise.

I do think that depression/other forms of MH problems still have a stigma, especially among older generations. I know people who almost certainly are suffering from depression but will not admit it and will not seek help. A lot of depression goes undiagnosed and it's those who do not seek help at an early stage who are more likely to have a more major breakdown later. You can think you're coping and it can be something quite small and seemingly trivial which is literally 'the straw that broke the camel's back'.

Regarding troisgarcon's phrase 'a touch of', I don't think it's that bonkers actually. There are degrees of depression and these are classified by MH practitioners. My own view is that most people will have a degree of depression sometimes - mainly, but not necessarily, reactive - following big life changes such as death, divorce, birth of a new baby, loss of job etc. I know a birth is generally to be regarded as a joyful event but ther's no getting away from the fact that it is a huge life changing event which can put pressure on relationships, finances etc. And for those who have given up their jobs to be SAMs, there is also the loss of status and financial independence as well as the isolation.

I'm not sure that I have the answers, but I do think that sleep is very important - it's the great healer. Also, getting outside and walking are very good for uplifting spirits. And making a list of things to do and just trying to tick off one or two so that there is some feeling of achievement and progress - if you are at the stage where you can do this. I am gaining the impression that a lot of the above posters coped by doing this. And troisgarcons yes they did cope, many coped very well.

And of course the support of loved ones - if you are lucky enough to have them - is very helpful. And seek support from your GP if you need to. Depression is like any other form of illness to the extent that it comes and goes, gets better or worse, does not discriminate between old and young, rich and poor etc. It is also an extremely nasty illness. Hopefully, threads like this raise awareness.

The thing is, everyone copes in the end, right? Accept for a very tragic minority, everyone copes - it's just that some people have even more on their plate than others.

There are degrees of pnd, the most common would be what used to be called "baby blues". Over whelming emotions, crying, loss of appetite, inability to sleep. When it's more severe it is clinically defined as postpartum depression and needs to be treated by appropriate medical intervention. In the most extreme cases it can become postpartum psychosis and this illness is usually treated in special mother and baby inpatient units.
All are degrees are REAL mh problems and have classifications in the DSM-IV, which is the diagnostic manual for mental health problems.
I am sad that in this day and age there is still such ignorance regarding mh issues but trios has proved the stigma is still alive and kicking
I wonder if by belittling others she is able to hold on to the stories she has about her self as 'strong' and 'coping'. I often find that those who present themselves as better than others are the people with the most internal dysfunction?
Or maybe she's lonely and desperate and knew she'd get all this attention; and negative attention is better than feeling invisible?