To be concerned this childcare is making DS insecure and sensitive?

[yellowjellybean]

We are close friends with a couple who have a 6 yr old son. The father works full time, late nights because of his industry. The mother works (out of choice, no financial need) full time also. She travels perhaps once a fortnight and is often away for a whole week. Se enjoys her work hugely and the lifestyle that comes with it and doesn't want to give that up.

Their DS is cared for by grandmother and grandfather, and sometimes aunt and uncle. I would say the grandmother and aunt are the main carers in this child's life. He hardly sees mother and father due to work. It has been like this since birth.

As we watch him grow up, he is becoming more and more sensitive, insecure and unsure of himself. He gets extremely distressed for example if his aunt or grandmother show attention or affection to another child. He doesn't have this reaction when it's his mother.

When I talk to them about DS they say it's wonderful he has so many people around him showing him love. I agree that is a wonderful thing, except I think he doesn't feel loved by his mother or father - or at least not as much as he needs. And the love he gets from grandmother and aunt is beginning to be held back a little to try and redress the balance and let him know 'his mother is his mother'.

All in all I think he is confused, and while he gets lots of sporadic love and attention from a large group of adults, he has no one person who is his main 'mother/father figure', who gives continuity and therefore security.

Our children spend a lot of time with their son and increasingly he is showing sensitive and/or jealous behaviour around my children. I don't want to stop being friends but beginning to dread spending time with them because of it.

The whole thread is full of your charming remarks regarding silly little women at home reflecting.....

No.that's just made up
If your going to paraphrase get it right

" its disgustingly selfish to put yourself first with your high flying job and lifestyle and leave your kid to be brought up by grandparents. fucking outrageous im sorry. makes me livid. it cuts me deep to imagine my babies being brought up by anyone else but me and their father. the kid is gonna be messed up by not having his parents"

"Sorry, but I can't understand why anyone would have a child and then choose to work full time out of preference "

"maybe some posters should look at why they are getting so incensed at your anonymous post....."

"if you dare to suggest that money and careers and being busy aren't hugely important question someone else's parenting choices, that is what you'll get here, I'm afraid"

I am reading a thread in which the statements above have been applied...

No one has patronised SAHM, for the most part people have said to the OP that it is none of her business and that people should be allowed to make their own choices.

"The whole thread is full of your charming remarks regarding silly little women at home reflecting....."

I've read all of Scottish's posts stwice and in context and can't see anywhere where this is statement is true.

I'm not paraphrasing, I'm being sarcastic. If your precious Mama tripe is not alluding to SAHMs being silly little women, with no stake in the world because they're too busy reflecting on the 'precious moments' of their littluns, then what is alluding to, enlighten me, although I'm a SAHM so that might be difficult!

You're a wee ball of anger arent you
And do like going for the personal attacks
Read back, slowly if you need. I don't make personally addressed you is this and that comments.

Unlike you

Yule, some good editing there. I was referring to the 'precious moments mama' talk.

I don't agree with anyone saying women shouldn't work and have children. I don't think that is what the OP is saying.

I haven't edited.

scottish, you've just contradicted yourself, I'm a 'wee ball of anger' but you don't make personal attacks. No you need to work out why your so resentful towards the women who haven't chosen to do it your way and stop insulting whole load of women that are what you refer to as, 'precious', your words not mine.

I think u are spending far too much effort and time on other peoples business, maybe u need took to your own.

If u weren't friend constantly judging and undermining me well that's horrible.

Noone had the dibs on being the best parent, yours might be awful teens!

I think it is all a bit of speculation to know why the child might be insecure. I think most children feel pretty secure their parents love them, even if they are often cared for by others. The traveling might be the bigger issue - my mum was sahm but she went away as much as a week every month to visit friends after we had moved elsewhere and I took it really hard around the age of 6. But who knows, I think the op is making a lot of assumptions

Yes one dig
Compared to the many inferior,superior,narrow minded,Resentful,with a complex
Lol

And get it right its not the precious moments mamas who are precious. It's their description of all things as ickle significant and precious. And it's oft touted rl and mn. Few weeks ago poster opining that another mum shouldn't return to work for fear she miss the precious years. kid you not

No, got what you meant, worded it badly.

Your descriptions, 'Ickle Precious moments', don't you get it, there really rude and insulting to SAHMs, it comes across as you're so superior as you don't worry or care about these things being the busy serious person that you are.

You have littered the thread with these stirring remarks that have nothing to do with the boy the OP talks of. I made my personal remarks about your attitude at the very end as your last reference to 'precious moments mama', was the straw that broke the camels back.

Anyway have to go as I'm in danger of missing my children's precious moments!

I agree with yuleing. Ime People will defend their position if attacked, but tbh I don't remember many, if any, threads started simply for the purpose of attacking SAHM. Even Xenia, bless her, doesn't start threads. She has quite extreme opinions but I have never seen her start a thread attacking SAHM. Whereas there are frequently threads such as this one, which feign a benign interest in what another family are doing but are in fact a stealth attack on women who- shock horror- do that perfectly normal thing called WORK.

Just chill out op. if you want to concern yourself with something, why not focus on the poor children who come under the care of social services because they have been abused or neglected. I think you'll find statistically that such children are usually being cared for by parents or step parents. Often the parents aren't working.

Nothing you have said about this boy sounds outside the realm of 'normal childhood behaviour'. You assume he's like he is because his mother goes away a lot and - shock horror- sometimes goes to nail bars. Although how you know so much detail when you only see them once a year is a mystery...

The OP isn't criticising people who work. She is criticising people who don't care for their child. Maybe if you work then you fear that people may be saying this stuff about you, so it makes you angry.

Is it my imagination, or do people not give two hoots about the whole SAHM/Working mum debate in RL. People just do what they do. I've never had anyone being nasty about me when I was a SAHM, and noone's been nasty since I went back to work.

If you are comfortable with your choices it's a bit of a non issue.

And are people really saying that of a close friend was ignoring a child they wouldn't be bothered by it? All the OP is doing is asking on MN for advice FGS.

Dodie- there is no evidence in this case that the parents DONT care for their child. They may care for him and love him very much. They have clearly outsourced much of the practical care to relatives. Now, that's certainly an unusual set up. It is not one many people would choose. I certainly preferred proper regulated care when I was a WOHP with little children- I wouldn't have chosen grandparents and aunties. But then I didn't travel extensively like the parents here do. People also seem to be ignoring the fact that the boy is in school 6 and a half hours a day anyway.

The op has not said a single thing which suggests abuse or neglect. If she had, people would quite rightly be very concerned. The op comes across as interfering and strangely over interested in how another family are choosing to live.

Finally if you read the ops posts dodie you'll see that she refers pretty much exclusively to the MOTHER working (and visiting nail bars!)- barely a mention of the father, which rather blows your theory that it isn't a WOHM/ SAHM issue. If its purely about concern for the child, why does the op not mention the dad?

"Your descriptions, 'Ickle Precious moments', don't you get it, there really rude and insulting to SAHMs"

but they are not aimed at all SAHMs, they are about those women who do cite 'precious moments' as a reason to be a SAHM. Not all SAHMs do this, most can see that each person has a choice and should be happy with that choice without sniping at those who choose a different way.

OP-Personally, I would think this family would probably be happier without your judgemental "friendship"
Every one has to do what is best for their own family and IMHO you need to stop sticking your nose in where it is not wanted
Some people have to work, some choose to work and some choose to stay at home- who are you to decide what is best for other peoples children?

Hear hear denj33 exactly right.

Spot on denj33

I also think yuleing is right. The 'precious moments' thing is not about whether a person works or not, it's about inflating certain things to the level that they take on an almost sacred importance- eg 'I can't possibly work because I might miss baby's first step/hiccup/ tantrum' etc.

Such thinking is illogical on so many levels - it ignores the fact that the other parent is probably working his bollocks off to enable one parent to watch and wait for those precious moments.

It also assumes that if you are home you will undoubtedly see all those firsts, and if you're working you won't. I worked 3 days a week and was on a day off when dc1 took her first steps. Or at least thats what I think- but hey, maybe she took a couple the day before at the childminder , and the cm didn't tell me so as not to spoil the surprise...

The bottom line is, children are precious, they don't stop being precious, and every other step after that first one is wonderful. The school years are precious and enjoyable, the teenage years are precious...

OP said at 10:34 last night:

I am not saying they don't adore DS but, there is not one single adult who is saying to DS "YOU are the most important thing in my life".

No, and quite rightly too. Unless your sole parenting aim is to produce the most selfish, self-centred, little brat possible!

As long as he is loved, and knows he is loved, no child needs to have anyone tell them they are the MOST important thing () in their life.

I don't understand the implication that people who don't instantly agree with or believe the amount of detail op actually knows and the changing stories are
Projecting...

I don't even have kids yet so I certainly don't think I am projecting my situation onto anything or anyone.

I just think op is terribly nosey and really has no idea as to the ins and outs. Her level of 'knowledge' doesn't tally with her description of the friendship. He might be clingy for other reasons. I was clingy as hell and had a SAHM... I was an only child.

I'm also at the 'mother
Works full time' becoming 'well its the equivalent of working ft but really she goes shopping and goes to nail bars and actually makes no money'

She is judging this woman SOLEY for the choice she made while not strictly having a financial need to. I asked upthread how
Op would feel if the family were poor or and had not choice but to work ft in asda to support the child.

No answer yet therefore it's just purely judgey nastiness IMO

Me too... I was back in full time work but DS took his first steps in front of me. My DH wasn't there but is no less thrilled by the time he saw 'first steps' - they were the first steps he saw and I didn't berate him for not being there when I saw them.

I am not protesting too much, I am sying how it was for me and I am fine with that. I am not working to afford luxuries - I am working partly because I want to contribute financially towards the mortgage and food bill and partly because for me personally I want to hold down a job I enjoy.

OP, I think that you need to let the family of the child that you are concerned about make their own decisions and choices about his care. Alot of people care greatly for this child, who will get funny about younger children hugging his granny because to all of the 6yo I have ever known if anyone is hugging their granny, gramps, mummy or daddy they want to know why! It's just how some kids are. Also alot of people seem upset on this thread because of some of your changes about the mum, ft working or failed artist going shopping. Most people wohm because they have to financially or because they need the involvement of work. I have tried both, I couldn't be a sahm as I went stircrazy. I now work fulltime as does my DH to all intents and purposes you could have written about me except I don't have a car and I don't do nail bars but the amount of time in the house is about the same.

The point I'm making in a waffly way is you don't know what happens in their house and often kids can be jealous and clingy with their granny around other kids

Take the emotion out of it - you are worried because a young boy you know well is "becoming more and more sensitive, insecure and unsure of himself". What does he do (apart from the one example you give) that makes you believe that?

Many children are cared for by family members, or external childcarers, so I'd hazard a guess that that's unlikely to be the reason behind his behaviour. Is he unhappy at school? Being bullied? That sort of thing is a million times more likely to cause a change of behaviour in a 6 year old.