To be concerned this childcare is making DS insecure and sensitive?

[yellowjellybean]

We are close friends with a couple who have a 6 yr old son. The father works full time, late nights because of his industry. The mother works (out of choice, no financial need) full time also. She travels perhaps once a fortnight and is often away for a whole week. Se enjoys her work hugely and the lifestyle that comes with it and doesn't want to give that up.

Their DS is cared for by grandmother and grandfather, and sometimes aunt and uncle. I would say the grandmother and aunt are the main carers in this child's life. He hardly sees mother and father due to work. It has been like this since birth.

As we watch him grow up, he is becoming more and more sensitive, insecure and unsure of himself. He gets extremely distressed for example if his aunt or grandmother show attention or affection to another child. He doesn't have this reaction when it's his mother.

When I talk to them about DS they say it's wonderful he has so many people around him showing him love. I agree that is a wonderful thing, except I think he doesn't feel loved by his mother or father - or at least not as much as he needs. And the love he gets from grandmother and aunt is beginning to be held back a little to try and redress the balance and let him know 'his mother is his mother'.

All in all I think he is confused, and while he gets lots of sporadic love and attention from a large group of adults, he has no one person who is his main 'mother/father figure', who gives continuity and therefore security.

Our children spend a lot of time with their son and increasingly he is showing sensitive and/or jealous behaviour around my children. I don't want to stop being friends but beginning to dread spending time with them because of it.

Let's be frank this boy's insecurities could be about his parents emotional distance.

If you start from a disapproving judgey premise,then yes you'd erroneously see it that way.and you'd fit your interpretation and language to what you think you see

Fortunately, working is regarded positively and the sociodemographics and health data attest that work is good for you.

This thread has shocked and angered me ! Op I agree with you , if what you say is true they are very odd parents to not be addressing their sons needs !

Some parents aren't engaged with their children, very sad, but I have seen it for myself.

However, in these circumstances, if the mother or father are very disengaged, it's actually better that the child has a loving grandparent or aunt who they can bond with.

Your post sounds very distanced from them yourself, though, you certainly don't mention anything nice whatsoever about them and if you really only see them with their children once a year and your children get very upset (all of which I highly doubt) then I don't think they or you are losing much if you end the friendship.

So, OP, what exactly is your relationship with this family?

Crikey, lots of double standards on here. I always find the 'it's none of your business' replies remarkable, because what are we all doing here if not reading about and discussing other people's business? And the 'you know nothing about this family's situation' is also laughable, being said by total strangers on the internet, yet who think they can slap down OP and say she has no cause for concern.

I agree that the father should be as culpable as the mother in this. I agree that a woman has a right to work even if there is 'no financial need' just as much as a man does. So it's unfair to hold the mother responsible here. However, if what's been posted is accurate, the child here is unhappy and insecure and his parents, the people who should be trying to fix that, don't seem to be (which is not to say, of course, that one or the other should necessarily withdraw from working completely).

I personally don't go with the 'judging = BAD' premise which is trotted out as if written on stone tablets, either. If all judging is bad, what are we all doing here? It's clearly acceptable (even desirable) in some circumstances, often on (say) Relationships or Employment threads. It would make more sense to be one of the posters arguing for why the OP's judgement is bad, than just to be shouting 'judgey much?'

OP - I think you should try and give the boy the benefits of being close to your own family. It may not be his parents, but it's a start. And I think you owe it to him to have a conversation with his parents about how unhappy he seems. If you are thinking the friendhip is doomed anyway, then you may as well, and at least it'll make them think.

Surely, that argument cuts both ways though - you could fit the facts to support the view that it has nothing to do with the parents ignoring him. Equally, this could be just as wrong?

Studies I'm sure prove that work is good for the individual, I'm sure that there are not endless studies suggesting both the mother and father ignoring the child is beneficial?

Above post@ scottish

I need to clarify something here. When I said I've seen them with DS 5, 6 times in total, I should have gone into far more detail. Didn't expect other posters to look for holes.

In any case i have seen them actually doing something with their child - an activity, something that involves spending proper time together that number of times.

I have known mother and father for a long time, not only since DS was born therefore have not only met them 5, 6 times!!

I see DS every day yes, but not with his parents. I see them rushing in and out of the house a few times a month but not with child. Speaking to grandmother every day I do have a pretty good idea of how often DS sees parents. They are not there for bedtime etc. I try and do stuff with DS, we care about him. How could we not having known him from birth?

Hathor, not interested in answering questions that will risk identifying people involved.

So, it's one of those AIBU's then.

Whatever.

OP, its his parent's loss really isn't it?

My father was raised by his gran mostly, he was never close to his mum and dad, just visited them out of duty. The resentment felt towards his mother has marred his whole life (and ours!). I don't think he even cried at her funeral, not out of spite, there was just no real bond.

I hope the little boys granny and aunt show him lots of love, these are the people he will cherish as an adult. Perhaps you can be there for him as a good family friend.

OP I dont really understand why this concerns you so much. The child is perhaps sensitive, children whose mothers spend every waking hour with them are also senstive. I think your and ssd's premise is a bit ridiculous.

However if you have nothing in common with these people and your parenting styles are so widely divergant then perhaps you shouldnt be friends.

I don't think there is anything you can do about this boys childcare - nothing you say - especially anything that can be implied as criticizing their parenting -will go down well.

I know my DCs are sensitive and can get jealous or very needy at times but it their inbuilt temperament as I've been/ am SAHM always round and they've had a consistent environment as we could manage. MY DN is the most outgoing, bubbly happy DC you could meet and has been passed between waring parents, grandparents, step grandparents and Uncle, Aunties. Cousins and various paid childcare - with little consistency. So there is going to be an element of genetics in the boy behavior.

Would say DN is not good as sharing my parents time when my DC are around who have/do a lot of her caring. She feels she has first call on their time and attention. At school and other time she displays no jealous or sensitive behavior - exact opposite. It could be just your DC setting this boy off and he's fine rest of time.

Glad I found this thread. I'm not there for ds's bed time, I work full time and I travel - sometimes for more than a week. I am also single parent. I wonder how many of ds's friends parents are posting on parenting forums criticising me?

Doesn't matter what a precious moments mama thinks Mollie
If you Are you reliable,stable,loving then you're good enough mum

That's what I think too. Good enough is pretty damn good in my book. Ds knows I love him even if he doesn't always know where I am (I travel to some very far flung places!).

Boobiebrain agree it's parents loss, just makes me bloody sad to watch it.

Thedevil interesting points, maybe his personality. Begs the nature vs nurture question.

i havent read all the posts why are people feeling sorry for a child who is obviously being well looked after by other family members? would it be different if it was just the dad who rarely saw his ds and the child was sensitive? aslong as the child has firm attatchments to those looking after them then i doubt the sensitve nature comes from the mother and father not being there

if the parents are working that many hours and not paying out for a nanny or something it makes me think there maybe more money issues involved than they are letting on. no mater how much you think you know somebody you really do not

scottish, the OP's friend and husband, partner doesn't sound like any of thise things - loving, stable and reliable.

The whole 'precious moments mama' term sounds a bit resentful and bitter. She (the op) is talking about an individual not women that work and have young children. You should be happy with YOUR choice and not have to belittle someone elses to make yours feel more justified. I personally don't feel like a Precious Moments Mama even though I stay at home. It's very patronising and suggests SAHM have small brains and are wowed by small moments that don't even feature on your high flying radar!

Some very touchy posts here... I am quite appalled at how many people are having a go at you for being concerned that this boy's parents are so emotionally distant from him. They sound like shit parents and I feel very sorry for the boy.

Eightieschick (page 6) has written a very good post and has given some great advice, I too would try to engage the child in your family more and try to talk to the parents - good luck. Would love to know the outcome!

MollieO - You shouldn't get so defensive! This is not about you or how you parent! The op is concerned because the parents she is talking about don't engage with their child. You obviously work hard and do all you can to be there for your child when you can so dont take this thread as an attack on you x

salad, if you really had money issues though you would now own and run 2 4x4's, you'd sell them. You would have to be well off to afford the petrol. It doesn't match up to someone or people who are poor .

Any other culture and the extended family would all have a hand in raising the children.

Only on MN are parents/grandparents/siblings and in-laws the devil spawn, never to be allowed near the upbringing of children.

Lots of people have extended working hours - shall we make the military have 9-5 jobs? nurses, perhaps they should do 10-2 so they can do the school run? lets close supermarkets because the shelf stackers and delivery drivers will be working over night.

The child is well cared for, within his family - you just dont like their lifestyle choices.

Did you say he's 6?

5-7 years old has been a time of odd behaviour in all 3 of my children. My current 6 year old has had, for the last year, an intensely annoying habit of screeching and wailing every time she gets a negative response or something she doesn't like happens. Am sure she'll grow out of it. I can't imagine anyone would want to blame this on whether my dh and I spend enough time with her?

Parenting has shown me that we really don't get what it's like to parent children who are older than our own until we get there. When I just had one 2 year old, I thought I was an experienced parent... and I was a bit, but not a patch on what I was 3 years later with a 5, 2 and 1 year old... now I just try to watch and learn from friends with older kids (and it's often a scary prospect).

but precious moments isn't my term it's the oft touted mantra I heard on mat leave and baby leave when I met the precious moments mamas in real life. Who all frequently vocally opined how they'd never miss widdle precious moment.or use nursery or childcare. Quite a surprise I'd never encountered such views before,as all my colleagues and friends return to work after having baby