To be concerned this childcare is making DS insecure and sensitive?

[yellowjellybean]

We are close friends with a couple who have a 6 yr old son. The father works full time, late nights because of his industry. The mother works (out of choice, no financial need) full time also. She travels perhaps once a fortnight and is often away for a whole week. Se enjoys her work hugely and the lifestyle that comes with it and doesn't want to give that up.

Their DS is cared for by grandmother and grandfather, and sometimes aunt and uncle. I would say the grandmother and aunt are the main carers in this child's life. He hardly sees mother and father due to work. It has been like this since birth.

As we watch him grow up, he is becoming more and more sensitive, insecure and unsure of himself. He gets extremely distressed for example if his aunt or grandmother show attention or affection to another child. He doesn't have this reaction when it's his mother.

When I talk to them about DS they say it's wonderful he has so many people around him showing him love. I agree that is a wonderful thing, except I think he doesn't feel loved by his mother or father - or at least not as much as he needs. And the love he gets from grandmother and aunt is beginning to be held back a little to try and redress the balance and let him know 'his mother is his mother'.

All in all I think he is confused, and while he gets lots of sporadic love and attention from a large group of adults, he has no one person who is his main 'mother/father figure', who gives continuity and therefore security.

Our children spend a lot of time with their son and increasingly he is showing sensitive and/or jealous behaviour around my children. I don't want to stop being friends but beginning to dread spending time with them because of it.

While the extended family love the DS the childcare is sporadic. By that I mean DS does not know who is looking after him from one day to the next. Aunt and uncle also work, and so does grandmother part time. Extended family all have other priorities, I am not saying they don't adore DS but, there is not one single adult who is saying to DS "YOU are the most important thing in my life".

He is pretty important to lots of people, but not HUGELY important to any one of them. Does that make sense?

It's almost as if he's not quite sure where he fits in. It is difficult to explain the complexities of his situation in a couple of paragraphs.

Going back to finances, money is spent in abundance on non essential items, it's not just the cars. This is why I believe they don't have money worries.

OP, I really would speak to the parents. Make it about their DS being unhappy and say that maybe they could try and talk to him as you're sure he'll tell his mummy and daddy what's wrong. It would be so much more effective coming from him than from you anyway.

scottishmummy don't see why other people being sneery (ie women who sneer at the thought of using childcare) makes it OK for you/anyone else to be sneery in return. And that's what the use of 'precious moments mamas' is, just as much as calling WOHMs 'career bitches' would be (I say this as someone who would be under that heading).

I can't see the problem here with what OP is saying. She obviously knows the child and the family well.

Does anyone seriously think it is OK to have a child but take no interest in them, and not be involved in their care or their lives? It must be pretty confusing for the child if he hardly sees his mother or father, especially if the grandparents feel they have to "hold back".

Are you able to talk to the grandparents about it OP? How is the little boy getting on at school?

I hear you snafu, I used to think the same! As times goes on I realise I only have more and more to learn with each new stage, every couple of months at the moment.

He hasn't suddenly started displaying this behaviour though at age 6. Well actually now I come to think of it, the Sensitivity is new. The jealous and insecure behaviour has always been there. Ie: he has responded badly if an adult shows attention to another child or another child is centre of attention, this I can remember as far back as age 1. Perhaps it really is his personality? But I don't believe nature is responsible for all. I think nurture plays a big part too.

I'm not taking it as an attack on me at all. I'm just trying to point out to the OP that her perception may be very different from the reality. There are plenty of parents who spend a lot of time with their dcs and don't engage at all.

The difficulty is that while some children might be fine in that set-up, it doesn't sound like this little boy is. Children are individuals too.

So yes, he might be quite sensitive and need more stability and reassurance than another child in that situation.

In a nutshell, there are 6 adults all loving this child and all caring for him at different times, but no continuity with his care and no one taking the lead.

When I see them I feel as though they all believe DS is very lucky and the way they are doing things is the best way, because there are so many of them contributing.

But it's exactly because of this that subconsciously no one actually gives a complete commitment, and I do feel quite sure that DS feels this in some way or another.

Hello

I am a long time lurker and a hardly ever poster. But this one I wanted to.

Just my two cents but YABVU. I had stay at home mum and a dad whoe worked but was there for me alot. My mum was there for me all the time, she hardly ever even left me with a baby sitter at night.

But, I was one of the most insecure children you ever met. Did it ever occur to you that some children are just like that? Children all have different personality types, maybe it is just this child's nature to be jealous and insecure for no good reason. I felt a bit out out when friends at school played with children other than me, etc, etc. I thought it meant they didn't like me anymore.

You also say: He gets extremely distressed for example if his aunt or grandmother show attention or affection to another child. He doesn't have this reaction when it's his mother.

Case in point! I was the same. I was never jealous of my mother showing another child, or my sister affection, because I was 1000% secure in the knowledge that she loved me. So quite the contrary. The reason why this boy doesn't behave like this when it's his mother is because he knows he is loved by her. So you can forget your ridiculous idea that he doesn't feel loved by her.

In the country where I'm from originally it's v common for families to hire (usually from another country) someone to do the housework and childcare (when children arrive). So this person is there living in the family's house and doing the cleaning, cooking, child minding, ferrying of kids to school or activities and back. 6-7 days a week. Grandparents may make a show once a week, both parents typically work from 9-7/8 every weekday.

Some of these parents may also travel alot for work or work shifts (consultants, lawyers etc). These kids are pretty well adjusted. And those that aren't are not exclusively from these forms of upbringing.

Yanbu for raising concerns. But yabvu for assuming it's to do with parenting? My son is 4 and when we have a particular friend over to play (her dd is 23 months and my dd is 16 months) the little girls play better together and my DS sits and looks bored. When we go over to their house he actually says 'can we go home yet?' - something he never says when he's out with his peers! My point being - it could be an age thing.

YABU very indeed, I have not read all the posts, but I think you are blaming them for ........... let me think......... being a good example of a close, hands on, helpful and loving extended family???? He is well looked after, well loved, for the members of his family, yeah? That he reacts with jealousy towards his aunt or grandma giving attention to another child, well, some kids do that, they will grow out of it. I am sorry to hear that he is insecure, and wish for him to overcome that, but sorry I know shy, insecure children looked after 24/7 by their mums.... Actually this kind of upbringing, where parents work and the grandparents do the childcare or other member of the family it is just NORMAL to me

Lol,career bitches
Has a deliciously obnoxious appeal to it
Yes I is def a career bitch,i is down with all the other career bitches.yo!
going to steal that v funny

And I do find the precious moments mamas v funny as it happens. They do amuse me,all that indignant angst and fey worry about the whey faced weans in day care orphanages.not that they would ever do that.no siree

Wow. People are being horrid to you. And about a situation where most people would feel pretty sympathetic towards this boy if they actually knew him. I don't think it helps that your friends (and therefore by extension you) come across as a bit like something out of a Jilly Cooper novel. I think people who put their kids into daycare often feel bad about it, and you're getting the flack for that. People on here feel like you're criticising them, not your friends. I really can't think of any other reason why you're drawing such vitriol.

^this^ (DodieSmith).

"I think people who put their kids into daycare often feel bad about it"

oh yes, yes, you are so right. Those of us who are so busy chasing money we don't even need because we are too selfish to buy own brand sauces are just feeling so guilty for leaving our precious children in childcare because we miss those 'firsts' ... I mean why on earth did we all have children if we don't want to spend every minute with them eh? Us selfish guilty career women.

take a f***g chill pill and stop worrying yourself about the choices of other people who are not you and whos children will most likely grow up to be fine people just like yours will.

Rest assured I've never felt bad using ft nursery
Ever
Why would I feel bad at being good role model,solvent,and maintaining career.

YuleingFanjo Of course people worry about the choices their friends make if it seems to be having a detrimental effect on a small boy. Who wouldn't?

Wow the defensive posts just keep on coming...

Well scottishmummy - how great for you that you love ft nursery so much and are so bitchy about women who want to be there for the precious moments of their baby/toddler. You sound like protest a bit too much though.

People can snipe and gripe all they want but babies and young toddlers do prefer being with their mummy/daddy than being in a nursery all day, every day. To shout and yell against this is delusional.

It's also amazing how so many strangers here seem to know how this boy is feeling so much better than the op

I expect the lad will grow up fine. I mean, no doubt he will have some insecurities and maybe undesirable personality traits but hey ho, so might your kids op!!

Some of the most insecure children I know are from famines where mum is there 24/7

I also agree strongly with the post a while back about how you op are relating to this boy, and the subconscious messages you give out to him and your own children. Children pick things up. You have already decided that his situation is causing problems, therefore he will respond accordingly.

As for the issues about playing with your own children (age 1,2 and 3 I believe) - I imagine he's bored as that would be an unusual age combo for all the children to interact.

This boy is in school all day. For all you know he interacts fine there and is making good progress. Oh hang on a minute- now you're going to tell us you've read all his school reports and he's not!!!!

Seriously, back off op. you are way too interested in how another family are choosing to set things up, and youre dangerously close to looking like you have issues with working women (though strangely not working men.....)

Famines??! families

callmemrs, the OP is talking about an individual boy, she has written about the lack of attention and prioritising of the boy by both parents. It is other posters that are making it political! There are no anti women who work statements from the Op. However, there are plenty of over simplistic, sweeping generalisations being made about the type of women who choose to stay at home after Maternity leave.

Snidely remarks about 'Precious mama moments' might make you feel better(Scottish) about your choices but it's over simplistic pigeon holing, suggesting the choice (if you have it), to stay at home after maternity leave is chosen by women that aren't to be taken seriously, no loss to the working world, blah, blah, blah......unlike some Posters I don't know any professional women that returned full time after Maternity leave, I know 2 that had pay off's because they were refused flexible working in 'The City', I know 2 that went Part time, one of whom was harassed, bullied by her female boss for that choice. I couldn't work in the job I used to do because of the working and commuting hours would not allow me to see the baby I decided to have. If there existed a different working culture, I could've returned but that's a much broader issue that scottish's attitude doesn't account for.

The OP isn't prejudice by default because she is SAHM - this is over simplistic BS line of argument that insults a lot of SAHM's intelligence!

I repeat: op is way too nosey interested and is making all sorts of assumptions based on how this family are running things. For all we know, other people might view the ops children as insecure or clingy or whatever. The op needs to back off. It's all very cloaked in mystery too... Only sees child with parents about 5 times since birth, yet sees child every day, has intimate knowledge of finances, interests and motivation of child's parents... Woah! Alarm bells for me.

"Wow the defensive posts just keep on coming..."

when people attack eachother then they do end up being defensive. Of course those of us being told we must feel guilty for fucking up our children's lives by not being at home with them are going to defend our choices.

I never understand why so many women seem determined to make others feel shit about a normal thing like getting paid to go to work. It's never working mothers going on at those who choose to stay at home (with the exception of Xenia) but mostly seems to be the other way around. Get on with your life and your choices and stop wasting time making digs at people who make different choices.

Lol no I'd never deny any precious moment mama reflective time
Time to gasp at the complete wondrousness and stifle a choked grunt that someone,somewhere is missing precious moments

Hey And of course I must be protesting to hide the hurting.because no woman could ever want to work,happily chose to return to career,be fulfilled if she was missing any precious moments.....isn't that how that wee Frasier crane moment goes

YuelingFanjo, your obviously not reading the same thread or even the same forum as me then because SAHM's are being patronised all over this thread!

Scottish, you're totally missing my point, talk about narrow minded. Are you the kind if mum that couldn't possibly be friends with a SAHM? You definitely have some kind of superiority (or inferiority) complex. What don't you take some of your own advice to OP and stop making all sorts of assumptions about SAHMs?

Narrow-minded
Inferiority
Superiority
And a complex

You ole charmer you, the way those words appear on the screen.