To expect a midwife to carry out termination duties?

[foglike]

To think a midwife has to carry out these duties and not claim religious discrimination because she's catholic?

bbc link

YABU.
I'm rabidly pro-choice, but I don't think anyone should be forced to take part in terminations if they have a real moral objection to it. I disagree with them entirely, but they have a right to not be involved with something they find deeply objectionable.

I agree with Android.

YABU

i'm very pro-choice. saying that i think that you can't force someone to have a termination, then you can't force someone to carry it out

I totally agree. They were debating it on The Wrong Stuff this morning and I tried to ring in to rant about it, I was so enraged.

It's the thin end of the wedge isn't it? If we allow Catholic midwives to not perform pre-care and after-care duties for women having terminations, we give carte blanche to Muslim doctors to refuse to treat patients with diseases gained as a result of alcoholism, Christian medics to refuse to treat pregnant woman who are prgnant out of wedlock... the list could go on.

If you are a nurse/doctor/midwife you are there to provide care, not foist your moral/religious judgement.

yabu

p.s it's not "termination duties" they're being asked to carry out, it's pre and after care duties such as taking blood pressure, scans etc.

YABU if you think that midwives should carry out terminations if they object, however, the article does not suggest that, it only talks about a midwife having to supervise the staff she has delegated to, which is quite different and definitely not unreasonable.

I don't think health professionals should be able to 'opt out' of anything. Is the midwife going to refuse to discuss contraception methods next because of religion? Its a slipper slope IMO.

The article states that they don't have to be directly involved, they just have to delegate staff. I'm anti-abortion but I think that if your job partly involves delegating staff to carry out the procedure, then you have to do your job or quit. As a teacher I wasn't really comfortable teaching RE as I don't feel qualified to answer the children's very probing theological questions, but I had to do it anyway as it was part of my job. From reading the article it seemed like their hospitals tried to accommodate their preferences, seeing as one of them was moved to assessment duties. It seems to me like they might have brought this case to highlight their objections to abortion.

And supervising/instructing those who were doing the work.

What Bupcakes said.

YABVU. She has a total right not to do something against her conscience.

Bupcakes - you are simply wrong

It's not the thin end of a wedge.

It is a longstanding conscience clause, which covers only contraceptive and termination issues.

Oh OK, I didn't notice that it wasn't directly involved in terminations they were arguing about, that does change it somewhat.

And yes, they weren't asked to perform abortions but only to provide before and after care and delegate staff.

"YABVU. She has a total right not to do something against her conscience.

Bupcakes - you are simply wrong"

Would you care to expand on that instead of stamping your foot and declaring that I am "simply wrong"?

I can see bupcakes view but the emotional side of me who had a termination for medical reasons would prefer care from people who were ok with being there. It's sensitive enough without picking up that staff not happy /feel morally compromised. Am on fence a bit here.

They work for an institution that carries out abortion. That is a fact that they can't get away from. If they feel that strongly about it they should stop working for the NHS and go independent or move to Ireland where they won't have to carry out abortion. The idea that as sisters they can just refuse to manage people is mad - that's their bloody job!

YABU. This should be an choice for the person carrying out the operation as well as the woman needing the termination.

Refusing to offer care before and after makes it even worse.

Agree with Buppy - even if she is "simply wrong"

They were never required to be involved in the operation sue.

They aren't being asked to perform the abortions themselves.

So in effect, they are endangering women. Refusing to delegate pre- and post- termination care is failing to do their jobs. If they can't do their jobs, then they need to be redeployed. Or can women only have terminations on days when this pair aren't working? What about a woman's right to bodily autonomy, or her LEGAL right to access abortion? Religion is not a trump card, and it is time this country recognised that.

I would be interested to know if they also refuse to advice on contraception, or refuse to care for women who get pregnant after contraception failure. What about single women, surely they offend their moral code?

"It's not the thin end of a wedge.

It is a longstanding conscience clause, which covers only contraceptive and termination issues."

Well, if that really is the case, what happens when medics object to performing liver transplants on alcoholics because alcohol consumption contravenes their religious beliefs? Or offering life-saving treatment to someone rushed into A+E because they've overdosed on heroin because drug use contravenes their religious beliefs? When we start dragging morals into who deserves care and who doesn't, we are on a slippery slope.