To expect a midwife to carry out termination duties?

[foglike]

To think a midwife has to carry out these duties and not claim religious discrimination because she's catholic?

bbc link

Maybe its the way that I word things but I really think people have not not understood my posts.

I quite often care for women undergoing a TOP. I say quite often, but compared to delivering healthy live babies it is really a small amount. I do this on a semi regualr basis though. I administer the drugs also and I think I am lovely to the women and help them through a difficult time.

I do not use my right to conscientiously object. ie the drug giving.

I ahve never had to look after a woman undergoing TOP for any other reason and it is unlikely to happen at my trust. I would be uncomfortable if put in this situation as it goes against the reasons i trained to do the job. I imagine that a large number of my colleagues would feel the same.

Now, on a personal level I do not agree with abortion. And that means me having one. I do not care or judge anyone else for what they do. Surely it is simple that I can separate the two? There are lots of things that I wouldnt personally do- have an elective CS, FOR example. Would anyone suggest that I treat these women differently? Ir's bonkers.

I am sure there are some saints working out there in whatever field who do not have an opinion or never pass(silent) judgement but they must be in the extreme minority.

Its a bit like saying a policeman shouldnt be in his job because he is a teeny bit judgemental when arresting a criminal>

I see lots of people who make lifestyle choices that I do agree with but I am still able to care for them exactly the same way as anyone else. Is that too difficult to understand. Or is it just because I am a midwife I am not allowed an opinion.

The trouble is with mumsnet, everyone thinks they are bloody right. It is as bad as all the bloody porno threads whereby those objectors think we should all think the same.

Who the hell says who is right and who is wrong?

Why would it be unlikely that a late abortion for 'social' reasons would happen in your trust?

I totally agree carmen seems people aren't willing to accept others points of view.

Not when their points make them hypocrites.

Jesus Christ rational< you won't let it go will you?

I don't know, but I imagine it doesnt happen in most trusts.

Like someone else pointed out, number one, I don't really think its appropriate that someone who has had a TOP is put next to either a regular postnatal lady or a lady who has had a miscarriage. I mean this from both womens points of view. Both would feel awkward.

Also, it's not in our remit to generally be involved in termination! Yes, sometimes it happens but that is not the main role of a midwife.. Just like a nurse is not generally involved in delivering a live baby, but rarely an unbooked woman might present in A&E, meaning a nurse may have to care for her.

Now are you deliberately being awkward, because not once have I said I treat any woman different regardless of what they are admitted with.

And thanks peanutbutter and yes it is heartwrenching at times. I have seen some truly awful things over the years.

It's the difference you make between 'social' terminations and ones performed because of abnormality in the foetus, you gave repeatedly stated that you feel differently but keep moving the goalposts. Now you're saying you don't think any terminations should be carried out by midwives because they shouldn't be placed with other women in case either feels 'awkward'.

You keep coming back at me, that's your choice.

Er, well there is a difference between social TOP's and those done for abnomality(in my opinion).

Not saying that woman should ever be treated differently though.

IDeally, I would like my job to be that I never have to face these dilemma's, but such is life.

Now I will not be coming back at you anyone discussing a topic and a job that you clearly know jack shit about.

Oh and i DID NOT say that midwives should not be involved in any TOP's in case women felt awkward. I was responding to you question about me being involved with late TOP's at my trust!!! I feel it would not be appropriate that these women are all treated together. Having said that, I do not know excatly why we do not have women who have late TOP's for 'social' reasons. Probably because it is a maternity hospital not a gynaecolgy unit or abortion clinic.

You have twisted nearly everything I have said

You deserve congratulations for continuing to come back at me, numerous others have given up well before this

A lot of what you've said is confusing, some contradictory, some quite hypocritical, you've been quite evasive. I haven't twisted your words, you have.

Anyway, such is debate.

That's nothing compared to what I've been called on this thread

(baby murderer allegedly)

For what its worth, I don't believe that a woman should be able to abort the fetus/ baby after 24 weeks, whether the fetus will be born with a life long disability or not. Once the fetus is viable, terminating for a syndrome is discriminatory.

I suppose if the disability is incompatible with life would be the only exception ( e.g. ancephaly)

I also believe that a midwife should be allowed to not administer drugs etc to woman undergoing an abortion but refusing to delegate is a tad too far...

carmen I agree with what you've said, my trust is the same. Early tops in gynea wards with women being cared for by nurses. It has allready been said that top can be done under ga up until 24 weeks, maybe that's why not many mw deal with late top on the labour ward.

Women having top due to medical reasons are probably less likely to go under ga as many of them will want to see their babys after they are born.

Of course top for social reasons are different to those done for medical reasons. A women who doesn't want to be pg in the first place is going to feel differently to someone who was happy to be pg and planned to keep the baby, bought things, chose names got to 20 + weeks pg before finding out something was wrong