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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

about this woman r.e headscarfs?

231 replies

boatdeliah · 15/12/2011 21:32

Okay so this may be my 2nd AIBU in as many days but this happened today and really upset me. But I suddenly thought that maybe I was BU about what I did in response - that maybe I over-reacted.

I had to go into a meeting today for work with another company (a formal sort of meeting - in board room, suits, presentations etc). There was about 6 people in the room.

It was a long meeting and thoughout the first half (we had planned a tea break) the woman from the other company kept looking at me (she is new, I have never met her before and when we were introduced they said that she was a graduate on a training scheme and so had been invited into the meeting)

We break for tea and all stand around chatting as you do. I went to pour myself another drink and she approached me.

Anyway after all the hellos and all she looks around and then says slightly quieter - that she doesn't mean to offend me but me wearing a headscarf offends her and would I mind removing it.

Umm - No. I said that yes I would mind and that I found her request very odd.

We got on with the meeting and she was silent for the rest of it (and kept glancing at me)

When we got back to our office - I phoned up the person incharge of her in her dept (who couldn't be in meeting but whom I know very well). Then emailed that person - CC in their head of HR and the person in charge of graduate schemes in that company, Saying what had happened, what I had said, and what I thought of the request, inappropiateness of it. Basically making a complaint just not making it very formal.
On the phone her manager did ask if I wanted to make it a formal compalint - and I said I didn't want to make a snap decision and I would talk to her on monday, but thought I should raise it. (I do know this manager very very well and for a long time)

DH thinks I should just do whatever I feel is right on Monday.

But sitting hear tonight sans headscarf I've got thinking 'did I over do it?' - she's young and new and would have just an email to her manager been alright, and if this becomes something will i may have ruined something for her, she asked I said no - have I made a mountain out of a mole hill? this company could come down hard on this woman is taht fair because of something I have done?

(I wear a mitpachat/snood thing btw)

OP posts:
Kayano · 15/12/2011 21:37

She was inappropriate and very rude and you did the right thing IMO

Kayano · 15/12/2011 21:37

I would probably have told her in equally hushed tones that her face offended me Blush

Grumpla · 15/12/2011 21:40

Seriously?

I am gobsmacked. She must have led a very bigoted sheltered life to a) have a problem and b) think it was somehow acceptable to ask you to remove your headscarf.

And yes I would make a formal complaint.

ScarletLadyOfTheNight01 · 15/12/2011 21:42

I always find it funny how people say "I don't mean to offend...BUT" and then follow it with something quite offensive. I don't think you went over the top, you behaved in a professional manner. If you get to Monday and don't wish to proceed with anything formal, then don't. It's worth having a record I guess in case she goes on to make any further comments or anything like that.

Tryharder · 15/12/2011 21:42

Hmm. Difficult. I can't believe her cheek really to voice her opinion like that particularly as she was a very junior person in the room. You'd have thought she would have wanted to impress and get on with everyone. Very strange.

But she made her feelings clear, you dismissed her, you have complained about her inappropriate comment and I would leave it at that if it were me. She might be dismissed if you take it further and I personally wouldn't want it on my conscience plus I am a great believer in karma and never knowingly want to bring hurt onto others. Hopefully her manager will tell her to wind her neck in and she will learn to mind her own business.

rubyrubyruby · 15/12/2011 21:42

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

AgentProvocateur · 15/12/2011 21:43

I've just had to google to see what a mitpachat was Blush.

I think you did the right thing and didn't overreact. I can't see how you wearing a headscarf could possibly be offensive, and I think that she was very rude. Presumably, she came across a wide range of people at university, and will continue to do so in the workplace. I am actually atsounded that A) she found it offensive and B) that she told you this and asked you to remove it.

maybenow · 15/12/2011 21:44

it's a very very odd thing she did. how could anybody be offended by you wearing a headscarf?

i understand some people might not approve of the cultural practice and feel it's about men controlling women (not saying it is).
i also understand not liking face covering (i'm not keen on it).

But i don't understand at all how your headscarf could offend her???? it's very very odd.

Avenged · 15/12/2011 21:47

If you showed her your arse, then I'd expect she'd have something to be offended about Wink.

troisgarcons · 15/12/2011 21:47

lighten the moment I have a picture a 'la Hilda Ogden - headscarf, rollers in my head.

Seriously though, people should always take a step back and put themselves in other peoples shoes for a mo. Having done that, I cant see why a headscarf should offend. It's part and parcel of life now. It's no longer a curiosty. Its sort of like saying 'I think green is unlucky, dont wear that blouse again'.

is she a bit odd in other ways?

GaramMasalaGirl · 15/12/2011 21:47

Xmas Grin @ kayano

Boatdeliah - I strongly believe that this type of behaviour warrants a formal complaint. How dare she?

She needs to learn that you can't make such personal comments/opinions in the workplace.

BigHairyGruffalo · 15/12/2011 21:48

I understand that some people may disagree with what they feel the headscarf represents, but then women in headscarfs may also equally disagree with what 'western' dress represents. However, to ask you to remove it?!?! I am completely and utterly shocked! I think if you push the complaint any further she will probably get fired, but considering what she said, I think you can make any decision with a free conscience.

wineandcheese · 15/12/2011 21:50

Wow - well, what she did was awful and she needs to learn that sharpish. Don't worry about how you reported it. HR / her manager will take it from here and will do it in the most appropriate way.

WhereYouLeftIt · 15/12/2011 21:51

I'm a bit gobsmacked that she asked you to remove it. It was plain rude.

I think you did the right thing in contacting the company. Whilst in that meeting she represented the company. Her 'offendedness' was personal and voicing it reflected on the company. Does the company wish to be presented in this way? I doubt it. She spoke out of turn, and it needs to be dealt with before she causes someone deep offence/loses the company business/reputation. What outcome could she possibly have expected from her commenting?

I am a bit ambivalent about religious dress codes, but I would never dream of commenting on it to anyone adhering to a code. It's rude.

partyhats · 15/12/2011 21:55

I am so shocked that this happened! the cheek of the ignorant bitch! If it was me I would have not been so polite! I would complain for sure. She is a grown woman and this behaviour is unacceptable.

SquishyCinnamonSwirls · 15/12/2011 21:56

I think you did exactly the right thing. She was very very rude.

A good friend of mine wears a scarf/bandana/headcovering of some sort because she's recovering from chemotherapy, it's incredibly personal as to why you have your head covered.

PacificDogwood · 15/12/2011 21:57

She was utterly, utterly U.
I think your reaction to her was very measured and restraint.
I, too, had to google what a mipachat is - live and learn Smile.

How far I would take it further after making the situation known to those who need to know? I am not sure... I suppose it would depend on what kind of response I got from HR/manager etc.
Are you likely to have to work with her or have much contact with her? Have you had other people comment on how you chose to dress?

What a very odd thing to ask of anybody: The cheesy red braces you wear and everything they represent offed me, would you take them off? Weird.

randommoment · 15/12/2011 21:57

No - not an over-reaction. In fact, you've been very considerate, more than I would have managed. I can't see how anyone can have got to her age and level of education without learning why some women wear veils, or scarves over their hair.

GaramMasalaGirl · 15/12/2011 21:59

Still think it warrants a formal complaint. If she behaves like this whilst in a junior position...what will she be like when she's a little higher up?

How will she behave when in charge of subordinates? Can you imagine if, in the future, one her team is a young lady who wears a scarf and she is told by this idiot to remove it? I actually think you have a responsibility to make this formal.

IneedAChristmasNickname · 15/12/2011 22:00

YANBU and I would put in a formal complaint! How can someone find a headscarf offensive Confused

Kayano I would probably have told her in equally hushed tones that her face offended me Grin

bejeezus · 15/12/2011 22:00

This will be an important lesson for her. If she wants to get on, she will have to learn not to be such a silly offensive cow at some point huh?

TandB · 15/12/2011 22:02

I think you probably should make this into a formal complaint. If she is allowed to continue in this vein then she runs the risk of really offending someone who is less level-headed than you, and causing a huge ruck.

Any adult in any work environment should have the common sense to keep any prejudices/personal issues to themselves. It sounds to me like she was looking for a way to assert herself - look at me, how upfront and idealistic I am.

To a great extent, the cultural/religious aspect is irrelevant - the issue is that this woman thinks she has the right to impose her own views on another person to the extent of asking them to remove an item of clothing that she dislikes. It would be no different if she had said she didn't like your earrings or your red shoes or the cut of your jacket. It is personal and inappropriate.

Floggingmolly · 15/12/2011 22:03

Do you do business with the other company? The only thing I can think of is some sort of bizarre staged test of how professionally you would deal with a random situation, like some interviewers use? Is this likely?
Odd they would just pick on you though. Maybe they're going to headhunt you? Xmas Smile

rhondajean · 15/12/2011 22:05

Why on earth would anyone find a headscarf offensive?

lambethlil · 15/12/2011 22:05

Was she French?

I'm sorry you went through that OP, but am reassured by the unanimity of this thread.

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