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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

about this woman r.e headscarfs?

231 replies

boatdeliah · 15/12/2011 21:32

Okay so this may be my 2nd AIBU in as many days but this happened today and really upset me. But I suddenly thought that maybe I was BU about what I did in response - that maybe I over-reacted.

I had to go into a meeting today for work with another company (a formal sort of meeting - in board room, suits, presentations etc). There was about 6 people in the room.

It was a long meeting and thoughout the first half (we had planned a tea break) the woman from the other company kept looking at me (she is new, I have never met her before and when we were introduced they said that she was a graduate on a training scheme and so had been invited into the meeting)

We break for tea and all stand around chatting as you do. I went to pour myself another drink and she approached me.

Anyway after all the hellos and all she looks around and then says slightly quieter - that she doesn't mean to offend me but me wearing a headscarf offends her and would I mind removing it.

Umm - No. I said that yes I would mind and that I found her request very odd.

We got on with the meeting and she was silent for the rest of it (and kept glancing at me)

When we got back to our office - I phoned up the person incharge of her in her dept (who couldn't be in meeting but whom I know very well). Then emailed that person - CC in their head of HR and the person in charge of graduate schemes in that company, Saying what had happened, what I had said, and what I thought of the request, inappropiateness of it. Basically making a complaint just not making it very formal.
On the phone her manager did ask if I wanted to make it a formal compalint - and I said I didn't want to make a snap decision and I would talk to her on monday, but thought I should raise it. (I do know this manager very very well and for a long time)

DH thinks I should just do whatever I feel is right on Monday.

But sitting hear tonight sans headscarf I've got thinking 'did I over do it?' - she's young and new and would have just an email to her manager been alright, and if this becomes something will i may have ruined something for her, she asked I said no - have I made a mountain out of a mole hill? this company could come down hard on this woman is taht fair because of something I have done?

(I wear a mitpachat/snood thing btw)

OP posts:
StupidLikeButton · 15/12/2011 23:05

Young and new? Bloody inflammatory and rude more like! She sounds eithe VERY ignorant or VERY nasty. Report away. She needs a lesson in life.

GwendolineMaryLacedwithBrandy · 15/12/2011 23:06

Utterly ridiculous. Why on earth would you be offended by that? And why on earth would you think yourself so important as to believe that someone would remove it on your say so?

UnexpectedOrangeInMyStocking · 15/12/2011 23:07

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

SolidGoldStockingFilla · 15/12/2011 23:10

Do I get a prize for being the first person to ask if it's possible this woman is somewhere on the ASD spectrum? Because asking a stranger to remove an item of clothing you disapprove of is so spectacularly inappropriate, arrogant, solipstic and rude that it suggests some sort of social/behavioural problem.

EnjoyResponsiblyIfSleighFlying · 15/12/2011 23:11

I think your response has been mature and measured. Your actions are sufficient I think. Leave it to her Line Manager and HR to ram the point home hard explain the utterly inappropriate and offensive nature of her behaviour.

Well done for staying cool.

WorraLiberty · 15/12/2011 23:13

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by Mumsnet.

WorraLiberty · 15/12/2011 23:14

leave you to it.

pompombear · 15/12/2011 23:15

I didn't know what a mitpachat was either Blush, though I probably would have a vague idea of what it represented. But that's no excuse really, especially for someone who is supposedly educated.

You are absolutely NBU to take this further. It is the ongoing dismissal of smaller incidents like this that allows bigots to get away with their behaviour - not challenging it at this stage would allow it to escalate to worse things.

EricNordmanfirandMistletoe · 15/12/2011 23:16

How bizarre! Did this really happen?

Original poster
boatdeliah · 15/12/2011 23:19

Fair enough worra if you have your views on this.
fyi - I have recently name changed.

OP posts:
ruralmoomin · 15/12/2011 23:20

Her feeling "uncomfortable" looking at you is her problem. I would consider a formal complaint as if you do not, perhaps it will make her think her behaviour was acceptable? Another point to consider: how is you employer on the issue - supportive or not much help? Could just turn into nothing, but still might worth a go, imo

LadyBeagleBaublesAndBells · 15/12/2011 23:23

Just unbelievable.

LDNmummy · 15/12/2011 23:29
Shock

But then somewhere inside I do admire someone who is ballsy enough to be honest about such an obviously bigoted feeling. Its just sad that this is an educated person so you cant even use petty ignorance as an excuse.

MMMarmite · 15/12/2011 23:30

YANBU - I think you were right to raise it, otherwise she's going to keep doing things like this. It's not a molehill, I think what she said was, ironically, pretty offensive. Not sure whether a formal complaint would help anything though, maybe wait and see whether your informal complaint has any effect.

scarletforya · 16/12/2011 00:02

OP, you were right to bring it to the attention of her bosses.

If it were me I would want an explanation and a written apology -email would do fine, but I really feel she should be made to face up to her stupid actions and explain herself.

I'm truly baffled at her.

InMyChime · 16/12/2011 00:11

Just googled 'mitpachat' to see if it's some kind of elaborate headdress that would be outlandish in some way or maybe a niqab-style garment only to find that it's a very inoffensive-looking and neat style of head covering!!

No idea why someone would find that style 'offensive', much less why anyone would think it appropriate to say that to the wearer. If you were clad in full burka / niqab combo then I could imagine her staring at you uncomfortably if she wasn't used to seeing that style of dress but even then she would be out of order to go up and ask you to not dress that way.

Very odd, especially for a young person just out of university. You were definitely NBU to raise the issue but I think she may just need to be spoken to about being tolerant towards colleagues regardless of her personal views rather than formally disciplined.

ThatVikRinA22 · 16/12/2011 00:16

no solidgold you dont get any prize.

i find that incredibly offensive. my DS has aspegers but would never dream of being so incredibly rude, in fact, he often argues with idiots on Fb and forums rather like this one....he is more tolerant than most bigots and calls it as he sees it.

i am finding more and more of your posts shocking and ill informed these days.
so all people with ASD are bigots now are they?
ffs.

1Catherine1 · 16/12/2011 00:51

Vicar, you should know better than to feel your ds is "typical" ASD case. From the many children I know who live with ASD there is no typical case and some struggle a lot more with social interactions than others where as some you would never know unless told. I don't think you should take offense at the PP.

I think you have done the right thing. She'll get a telling off and I'm sure she'll learn from it so if you don't follow it through then she will not have got away with it.

ThatVikRinA22 · 16/12/2011 01:05

i should what? so solidgold can ask if she gets a prize for asking if a thoughtless offensive bigoted comment was made by a person with ASD rather than a person who is an arse, and i should what???

you should learn to spell offence.

kickassangel · 16/12/2011 01:17

she lowered her voice before speaking to you - she KNEW it was out of line & still did it.

Morloth · 16/12/2011 01:18

How very odd, I think you have done the right thing, she needs to be told it would seem or she will continue making an arse of herself.

sashh · 16/12/2011 05:15

Did the headscarf have obscene pictures on it?

Many women cover the heads for cultural / religious reasons (Jewish, Muslim, Christian - some groups of all three cover the head / hair ) or because they are bald due to chemo / alopecia.

This woman needs to get real and be sent on a cultural awareness course ASAP

LowRegNumber · 16/12/2011 07:12

No idea dude, maybe if the op had asked we would all be enlightened.

She lowered her voice to talk to you... She knew that is the polite way to deal with a difficult situation...

Goodness people on here are keen to jump to conclusions! The fact is none of you, including the op, have any idea what went on. Personally I think some people cannot make it through a day without crying "burn her" on a thread somewhere here and it rarely seems to matter which thread it is tbh.

nursenic · 16/12/2011 07:18

Sorry you had to experience that boatdelilah

Sad to say I am not shocked by her request. Working in the NHS, I encounter much discrimination, sadly from staff. I have been seriously victimised to the degree of having to change workplaces because I have spoken out (whistleblown) against racism/discrimination directed against patients.

Most of them sadly do not think they are being discriminatory...Shock

MabelLucyAttwell · 16/12/2011 07:25

I looked up mitpachat, too, and found it to be a neat, attractive, scarf just worn on the back of the head. It's not so long ago that business women of standing wore hats to work so what's the difference? It's not as if other people can't see your face.