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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

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Original poster

about this woman r.e headscarfs?

231 replies

boatdeliah · 15/12/2011 21:32

Okay so this may be my 2nd AIBU in as many days but this happened today and really upset me. But I suddenly thought that maybe I was BU about what I did in response - that maybe I over-reacted.

I had to go into a meeting today for work with another company (a formal sort of meeting - in board room, suits, presentations etc). There was about 6 people in the room.

It was a long meeting and thoughout the first half (we had planned a tea break) the woman from the other company kept looking at me (she is new, I have never met her before and when we were introduced they said that she was a graduate on a training scheme and so had been invited into the meeting)

We break for tea and all stand around chatting as you do. I went to pour myself another drink and she approached me.

Anyway after all the hellos and all she looks around and then says slightly quieter - that she doesn't mean to offend me but me wearing a headscarf offends her and would I mind removing it.

Umm - No. I said that yes I would mind and that I found her request very odd.

We got on with the meeting and she was silent for the rest of it (and kept glancing at me)

When we got back to our office - I phoned up the person incharge of her in her dept (who couldn't be in meeting but whom I know very well). Then emailed that person - CC in their head of HR and the person in charge of graduate schemes in that company, Saying what had happened, what I had said, and what I thought of the request, inappropiateness of it. Basically making a complaint just not making it very formal.
On the phone her manager did ask if I wanted to make it a formal compalint - and I said I didn't want to make a snap decision and I would talk to her on monday, but thought I should raise it. (I do know this manager very very well and for a long time)

DH thinks I should just do whatever I feel is right on Monday.

But sitting hear tonight sans headscarf I've got thinking 'did I over do it?' - she's young and new and would have just an email to her manager been alright, and if this becomes something will i may have ruined something for her, she asked I said no - have I made a mountain out of a mole hill? this company could come down hard on this woman is taht fair because of something I have done?

(I wear a mitpachat/snood thing btw)

OP posts:

Pantofino · 15/12/2011 22:34

Yes, did you ask her why it offended her? I only ask as I can't think of ONE possible reason.....

Pantofino · 15/12/2011 22:35

well other than "nasty bigot" anyway....

DoesntChristmasDragOn · 15/12/2011 22:38

One reason could be that she perceives it as subjugating women. She may be unable to grasp that it could be a willing choice made by the woman.

HoneyandHaycorns · 15/12/2011 22:38

Honestly speaking, the more I think about this, the more it beggars belief that someone would behave like this in a work setting. I just can't get my head around why anyone might come out with something like that.

Perhaps she has been pressured into taking the job and is doing her best to get fired?

Bubbaluv · 15/12/2011 22:41

I think I would speak to your friend and find out what the different outcomes would be for a formal vs informal complaint. It's a bit odd that they need you to decide on that really. I mean, armed with the information about what the girl did, surely her employer should be able to decide what level of redress they feel is appropriate.

Anyway, I would not be happy with her getting away with it entirely so if not putting in a formal complaint means they will do nothing about it then I would put in a formal complaint. I would want a written apology and an assurance that the girl's attitudes to minorities be investigated before she is employed on a permanent basis and/or put in a managerial position.

YANBU. People have all sorts of prejudices, conscious or otherwise, but to act on them so brazenly is a big red-flag IMO.

WorraLiberty · 15/12/2011 22:41

I'm sorry but I'm really struggling to believe this story

A graduate on a training scheme walks into a room full of people at a formal meeting and asks a complete stranger to remove her headscarf?

Sorry I just can't believe this.

PacificDogwood · 15/12/2011 22:41

Yes, this is what I mean: even if anybody is offended/uncomfortable with what somebody is wearing, does NOT give them the right to ask them to change it. I did not mean to imply, that thinking the headscarf suggested extreme views gave her some kind of licence to ask for its removal.

Original poster

boatdeliah · 15/12/2011 22:42

Oh Toda, Toda, Toda.
I am so relieved.

Being honnest I was so shocked to even ask her why plus she said it right at the end of the tea break.

OP posts:

NeuromanticisedVisionsofXmas · 15/12/2011 22:42

It is anyones prerogative to find anything offensive. Asking someone to accomodate yourwishes based on said offense is an entirely different matter.

GoingForGoalWeight · 15/12/2011 22:46

Agree with Neuro,,,same for people whodonot agree with Western dress/culture.

NotADudeExactly · 15/12/2011 22:47

Honey 's point may not be that absurd. I did once manage a member of staff who was hellbent on being fired because we'd hired her against all odds. The Jobcentre had forced her to apply for the position. She was also quite open about the whole thing.

She did accomplish her goal in the end by telling a client to go fuck herself.

Eglu · 15/12/2011 22:47

I am struggling to understand how a headscarf is offensive.

Even if you don't agree with them how is it offensive?

What a stupid woman

savoycabbage · 15/12/2011 22:47

My jaw is on the ground! I wish you had said what Kayano said now.

troisgarcons · 15/12/2011 22:49

(I wear a mitpachat/snood thing btw)

I had to google a mitpachat - I'd never heard of the word, although I know what one is by looking at the pictures.

Is it possible that she had no concept of what it represented?

PacificDogwood · 15/12/2011 22:50

boatdeliah, now you made me google 'toda'

NeuromanticisedVisionsofXmas · 15/12/2011 22:52

Its another word for a tichel isnt it?

Original poster

boatdeliah · 15/12/2011 22:57

Yep Tichel is the yiddish, Mitpachat is the hebrew.
Maybe she didn't know what it was

OP posts:

LowRegNumber · 15/12/2011 22:57

If you didn't ask why how on earth do you know if she was being reasonable or not? In fact you don't. It is quite possible you are going to be very embarrassed when the responses come in.

troisgarcons · 15/12/2011 22:59

Anyway after all the hellos and all she looks around and then says slightly quieter - that she doesn't mean to offend me but me wearing a headscarf offends her and would I mind removing it.

It doesnt make sense at all - replace headscarf with - diamonte brooch, or ummmmm, lace up shoes! It just isnt something that can offend (is it??) I just cant see what is upsetting.

NotADudeExactly · 15/12/2011 23:00

LowRegNumber what would be a reasonable motive for behaving like a bigotted cow, then? Mitpachatophobia? That's irrational by definition!

WorraLiberty · 15/12/2011 23:01

I must say having read the few posts you've made since joining OP, you seem to have a bit of a 'theme' going on.

TheAvocadoOfWisdom · 15/12/2011 23:02

yanbu.

I can imagine feeling uncomfortable in some situations if I was with someone who kept their face covered. But not a head covering like this. I can't imagine how anyone could be offended by it, unless it's something cultural like being French or Belgian.

NeuromanticisedVisionsofXmas · 15/12/2011 23:03

It doesnt matter whether she knows what it was. You dont ask anyone to remove an item of clothing because you dont like it, no matter what it is. If i am a militant radical feminist i cant ask you to remove your bra and wipe off your lipstick because it offends my politics. Even if you came to a meeting wearing an I love Hitler tshirt, it wouldnt be appropriate for me to ask you to take it off. If I felt strongly I could complain to your manager. Thats it.

There are no circumstances or excuses that make this ok.

UnexpectedOrangeInMyStocking · 15/12/2011 23:04

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

GoingForGoalWeight · 15/12/2011 23:04

I have never felt uncomfortable around a woman in a Burkha, their choice! Their 'life'

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