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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

about this woman r.e headscarfs?

231 replies

boatdeliah · 15/12/2011 21:32

Okay so this may be my 2nd AIBU in as many days but this happened today and really upset me. But I suddenly thought that maybe I was BU about what I did in response - that maybe I over-reacted.

I had to go into a meeting today for work with another company (a formal sort of meeting - in board room, suits, presentations etc). There was about 6 people in the room.

It was a long meeting and thoughout the first half (we had planned a tea break) the woman from the other company kept looking at me (she is new, I have never met her before and when we were introduced they said that she was a graduate on a training scheme and so had been invited into the meeting)

We break for tea and all stand around chatting as you do. I went to pour myself another drink and she approached me.

Anyway after all the hellos and all she looks around and then says slightly quieter - that she doesn't mean to offend me but me wearing a headscarf offends her and would I mind removing it.

Umm - No. I said that yes I would mind and that I found her request very odd.

We got on with the meeting and she was silent for the rest of it (and kept glancing at me)

When we got back to our office - I phoned up the person incharge of her in her dept (who couldn't be in meeting but whom I know very well). Then emailed that person - CC in their head of HR and the person in charge of graduate schemes in that company, Saying what had happened, what I had said, and what I thought of the request, inappropiateness of it. Basically making a complaint just not making it very formal.
On the phone her manager did ask if I wanted to make it a formal compalint - and I said I didn't want to make a snap decision and I would talk to her on monday, but thought I should raise it. (I do know this manager very very well and for a long time)

DH thinks I should just do whatever I feel is right on Monday.

But sitting hear tonight sans headscarf I've got thinking 'did I over do it?' - she's young and new and would have just an email to her manager been alright, and if this becomes something will i may have ruined something for her, she asked I said no - have I made a mountain out of a mole hill? this company could come down hard on this woman is taht fair because of something I have done?

(I wear a mitpachat/snood thing btw)

OP posts:
LemonDifficult · 15/12/2011 22:06

YANBU and you would totally have right on your side if you made a massive fuss.

But

If you trust her manager/organisation then I would leave it now. The other company will have almost certainly reacted like the posters on this thread and will deal with her and make it clear how unacceptable it is. There is not much more to be gained from your point of view except further involvement in what's basically a pretty unpleasant incident.

Nevertooearlyforcake · 15/12/2011 22:06

Only make a formal complaint if you are fully aware of any steps you may then have to go through yourself (I have no idea). However regardless of this I would definitely recommend you ask if her company has any form of culture/diversity training and she gets booted on to a course ASAP. HR would have a lot to say in my company if someone pulled a stunt like that

stubbornstains · 15/12/2011 22:06

My initial feeling was that maybe you've taken it far enough, and perhaps there's no need to make a formal complaint, but then I thought...."How on earth? Why on earth would you say that?" and my conclusions would be that either:

a) she is mad

or b) she holds extreme far-right political views.

If there is even the suspicion of the latter, my opinion would be to formally complain.

Firawla · 15/12/2011 22:06

I would put the formal complaint in. How on earth can this woman not realise it is totally inappropriate for her to request such a thing from you?! I wear headscarf and would have been quite upset if I was in your situation. It's quite aggressive for her to keep looking at you aswel as approaching you with her demand like that whether said in a polite voice or not

stubbornstains · 15/12/2011 22:08

Actually, re-reading my thread back, there's something I should have added:

"she holds extreme far-right political views and wants to act on them".

SpagBollyandtheIvy · 15/12/2011 22:09

Wow, YANBU at all. Incredible that somebody who is a trainee could act so inappropriately.
I would leave it there, it is the other company's issue to resolve, and actually you may have done this person a favour in the longer term as they will surely be made to understand why they cannot behave like this.

Beccabell · 15/12/2011 22:09

You've handled it very well in a cool and professional manner. I can't believe that someone would say that to you. What on earth can she be offended by? What a very strange woman and how dare she ask you to take it off.
Making HR aware of the situation was the right thing to do - I think I would make a formal complaint actually. The woman needs someone in authority to have a word with her at the very least because she can't go around doing that to people and get away with it. I don't think you have overreacted. If anything coming down hard on her will do her a favour for her future.

CaptainMartinCrieff · 15/12/2011 22:10

I think you've handled it very well. Only you can decide whether you turn this into a formal complaint. You have made the relevant people aware and even without formal complaint they will probably address this. With formal complaint maybe you can suggest they send her for some equality and diversity training?

BigHairyGruffalo · 15/12/2011 22:12

Graduate jobs are like gold dust, how on the earth did someone so stupid manage to get one? Confused

rhondajean · 15/12/2011 22:13

And I hope the overwhelming support on here reassures you this is a very minority viewpoint.

TandB · 15/12/2011 22:14

Having a re-think about my previous "make it formal" post.

If you know the person you have spoken to about this well enough, perhaps you could say that while you don't want to push them through all the procedures that go with the formal complaint procedure, you would like some action taken and perhaps an apology.

If she is a very recent graduate she may simply be very immature and entirely unaware of what is and is not appropriate in a work environment. Although, I am not sure how anyone could think what she said was appropriate in any environment.

DP is often involved in training the new graduates at his company. I have met a couple of them socially and have been surprised at the range of maturity. One that I met got straight into the swing of things and DP was very impressed with her. Another seemed to think she was still at school/university - treating the office like a big social club, requesting to facebook friend her bosses (and posting very inappropriate pictures of herself) and blatantly cracking onto DP, much to his colleagues' amusement! She didn't last long.

Avenged · 15/12/2011 22:15

If you were wearing a full face veil and she couldn't make you out then, I could PARTIALLY understand why she would ask you to remove it (to be able to hear you a bit more clearly), but a headscarf doesn't cover the face, so you are right to complain and she was downright rude.

HoneyandHaycorns · 15/12/2011 22:15

I am Shock that someone would be so brazen about expressing her prejudice. I don't think you'd be unreasonable to make a formal complaint, but I wouldn't blame you if you chose not to pursue it. Either way, I imagine that she will get a strong ticking off from her line manager and I doubt she'll make the same mistake again.

But really, how very odd that someone should be offended by a headscarf. It's a piece of material. Confused

thepeoplesprincess · 15/12/2011 22:15

I think it's a bit off to call her stupid and ignorant. It's a controversial subject, and it's perfectly possible to be educated and culturally-aware and still find headscarves offensive.

But that doesn't mean I think YABU. She clearly overstepped the mark by asking you to remove your headscarf. It's your choice to make- not hers.

nailak · 15/12/2011 22:16

I.would have told her actually your request does offend me, and asked her exactly what she found offensive about it, so I could try and correct any misunderstandings and educate her out of her ignorance.

If no one tells her about it, how can she be expected to know?

DoesntChristmasDragOn · 15/12/2011 22:18

I think a formal complaint would be OTT. She made a dumb/ignorant/offensive comment but she did not then pursue it further when you politely declined. If she had continued to go on about it then yes.

Only you can really decide though.

LowRegNumber · 15/12/2011 22:20

Did you ask why she Found it offensive?

NotADudeExactly · 15/12/2011 22:24

Definitely YANBU - she was way out of line!

For a bit of context: I am atheist; there's absolutely no love lost between me and religious dressing rules. I would be offended if others wanted to impose them on me or questioned my sense of morality if I didn't adhere to them.

Even so, it would not occur to me in my dreams to either take offense because of someone's dress choices or even to ask them to dress differently because of me. I'm not a bloody bigot, after all!

I also completely agree with kungfupanda about the right or lack thereof of imposing one's preferences on others. Just not on!

OP, if this were me I'd definitely make a formal complaint. She is, of course, within her rights to think whatever the hell she wants about your headscarf, religious beliefs etc. However, making this personal and then asking you to accommodate her goes way beyond the acceptable!

PacificDogwood · 15/12/2011 22:25

It is such an odd request to make - I am truly puzzled by why she felt the need to ask you Hmm.

Do you think it is possible she made incorrect assumptions about your religion?? Not sure why on earth that would be any of her business, but was this some kind of paranoid 'you must be extremist Muslim' overreaction? When in fact there could be any number of other reasons why you might chose to cover your head.

I cannot for the life of me think of any situation where it would be appropriate/polite to ask for the removal of a headscarf; and certainly NOT a business setting.

DoesntChristmasDragOn · 15/12/2011 22:26

Do you really think a formal complaint is necessary? I would have thought that, in this instance, a quiet word about it being inappropriate would suffice.

rhondajean · 15/12/2011 22:29

I know nothing about the OP, for all I know she may wear the headscarf to cover hair loss due to medical treatment, because she is Muslim, because she is a fundamentalist Christian, or because she just darn likes it. And thats okay by me.

thepeoplesprincess · 15/12/2011 22:30

PacificDogwood

I would personally assume that she'd recently graduated from the University of Bralessshire with a first in the Cultivation of Underarm Hair.

It's the only rational expla;nation I can see for why she explicitly said she was offended.

tunnelmaniac · 15/12/2011 22:33

Goodness me, how offensive to you and disrespectful to your religion! I'll bet she wouldn't have asked a muslim womad to remove her hijab.

NotADudeExactly · 15/12/2011 22:33

PacificDogwood I don't think this is legitimate even if she did misunderstand. If OP were a muslim extremist, it would still not be okay to discriminate against her for simply subscribing to a belief system, however stupid, morally questionable or factually absurd.

Freedom of religion essentially means that we are free to believe whatever the hell we want. Of course actions are a different thing. If an extremist muslim employee were to tell other members of staff that they need to cover up because their whorish outfits offend her, she'd cross a line. And here we come full circle, ...

tunnelmaniac · 15/12/2011 22:33

woman even. Grrr to typos

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