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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

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Original poster

about this woman r.e headscarfs?

231 replies

boatdeliah · 15/12/2011 21:32

Okay so this may be my 2nd AIBU in as many days but this happened today and really upset me. But I suddenly thought that maybe I was BU about what I did in response - that maybe I over-reacted.

I had to go into a meeting today for work with another company (a formal sort of meeting - in board room, suits, presentations etc). There was about 6 people in the room.

It was a long meeting and thoughout the first half (we had planned a tea break) the woman from the other company kept looking at me (she is new, I have never met her before and when we were introduced they said that she was a graduate on a training scheme and so had been invited into the meeting)

We break for tea and all stand around chatting as you do. I went to pour myself another drink and she approached me.

Anyway after all the hellos and all she looks around and then says slightly quieter - that she doesn't mean to offend me but me wearing a headscarf offends her and would I mind removing it.

Umm - No. I said that yes I would mind and that I found her request very odd.

We got on with the meeting and she was silent for the rest of it (and kept glancing at me)

When we got back to our office - I phoned up the person incharge of her in her dept (who couldn't be in meeting but whom I know very well). Then emailed that person - CC in their head of HR and the person in charge of graduate schemes in that company, Saying what had happened, what I had said, and what I thought of the request, inappropiateness of it. Basically making a complaint just not making it very formal.
On the phone her manager did ask if I wanted to make it a formal compalint - and I said I didn't want to make a snap decision and I would talk to her on monday, but thought I should raise it. (I do know this manager very very well and for a long time)

DH thinks I should just do whatever I feel is right on Monday.

But sitting hear tonight sans headscarf I've got thinking 'did I over do it?' - she's young and new and would have just an email to her manager been alright, and if this becomes something will i may have ruined something for her, she asked I said no - have I made a mountain out of a mole hill? this company could come down hard on this woman is taht fair because of something I have done?

(I wear a mitpachat/snood thing btw)

OP posts:

Floggingmolly · 16/12/2011 09:55

I'm flabbergasted at the poster who said she was being polite by lowering her voice when mouthing this crap, because that's how you deal with difficult situations !!!!!! Are you serious? There annit be two people in the world who think this was an ok thing to do?

KeepInMindItsAlmostChristmas · 16/12/2011 09:55

why is it assumed all rude/stupid/tantrum throwers have some sort of SN???
I have a child with SN Aspergers /Tourettes but even he manages to not be a git to people.

Some people are just horrible there does not need to be a "condition" to be the reason

entropyglitter · 16/12/2011 09:55

hmmm...my approach to these kind of situations is to strip away all of the religious/racial information. This is because I dont think that religious or racial prejudices should be a good reason for forcing anything on anyone and I also don't think you have more right to be offended simply because you hold a belief than anyone else who has had their appearance criticised.

I dont think it is fair to assume that the complainer was motivated by racism and the actual request was made quietly, using no offensive language etc.

The headscarf provides no possible barrier to communication and cannot possible have affected your or her ability to do the work you were they to do.

So I think this is equivalent to someone asking you to either 'get a haircut because your hair offends me, or 'dress differently because your style offends me'.

Both of these comments are clearly inappropriate in the work place. However I can see no particular reason for hounding the woman out of the company either. I personally think you have done exactly the right thing by stating to the relevant people that you found the behaviour inappropriate but subject to it never happening again (to you or anyone else) there is no cause for a formal complaint.

I think I personally would just have said 'My appearance falls within that considered appropriate in this company and it is therefore inappropriate for you to comment on it. If you do so again then I will make a formal complaint.'

But YANBU

Floggingmolly · 16/12/2011 09:56

can't. Obviously.

NeuromanticisedVisionsofXmas · 16/12/2011 09:57

"I don't like headscarves or what they represent"

but you don't know what they represent. I often wear the exact same type of headscarf as the OP, but I'm not religious. All it represents is that my hair is a mess and I like the scarf.
Don't assume you know.

MsWeatherwax · 16/12/2011 10:02

I would put a formal complaint in as I imagine her company would thank you for it. She won't make them any money if that is her idea of how to behave.

PippiLongBottom · 16/12/2011 10:02

I live in an orthodox jewish area and most of the young married women wear that type of scarf when they can't be bothered wearing their wigs . I see those women on a daily basis through my work and would be horror stricken if some bigot asked one of them to remove her scarf.

Dromratlee · 16/12/2011 10:56

I wear something like it (a diklo - but it ties under not over)
over the years some people have said things like ?why don?t you take that stupid thing of your head? or that it ofends them (church) - but its less nowdays than before. I?ve had women tell me if I listen to my community and wear it - I?m brainwashed.
I tell them if I listen to them and take it of because they say - then I?m still brainwashed so how come their brainwashing is better than our brainwashing?

But no one ever politely asked if Id mind taking it of and if they did I?d just say sure - if they take their skirt of too - as then well both feel naked.
I get less problems with it if its mistaken as Jewish - and some ask if its amish and dont seem to mind them either. Rastas often say Irie as a compliment. I think its funny that 1 and a half foot of cotton can have so much affect on some.
Be who you are and ignore silly people ? their problems are theirs.

tulipgrower · 16/12/2011 11:01

I had a muslim colleague who had grown up in a religious, but liberal interpretation of being muslim, she didn't wear a scarf, but felt that the more muslim women wear scarves, the more pressure on her to wear one to be a 'good muslim'. An unfair cultural pressure, rather than a religious reason. That said, she would never have asked a women wearing a scarf to remove it, even if she did find its meaning offensive.

Can she be offered some cultural awareness/tolerance training? Perhaps she's lived a really, really sheltered life, and it was drilled into her that a headscarf = oppressed woman. The company I work for has offered foreigners cultural awareness courses to better understand Germans. (Germans are great at offending people, without realising it. )

chinam · 16/12/2011 11:05

YANBU to have made a complaint about this. This young woman will meet people from all walks of life in her professional career and she is being totally unreasonale to expect them to confirm to her view of what is acceptable. She needs to learn that lesson sooner rather than later.

LadySybil · 16/12/2011 11:07

I think you did the right thing op
I wear a hat. I try to ensure it stays within the norms of fashion, but, if the room is overly airconditioned, it goes back on my head.
If i wore a scarf, I would ensure it went with my outfit, wasnt a danger to anyone, and then beyond that, its their problem.

the only thing i would be bothered about is a face covering. I find them difficult and awkward. even when they are protection masks, its difficult to read the non verbal communication.
oh, and im a muslim.

BsshBossh · 16/12/2011 11:11

YANBU. Obviously. Keep us posted as to outcomes.

oldmerryolesoul · 16/12/2011 11:12

I'll be honest and say I dont like the wearing of headscarves but.... it is your right to do so and she should not of been so rude.

On Monday I would suggest to her manager that she need it explained to her her behaviour was out of order and she may need some diversity training

wahwahwah · 16/12/2011 11:13

Did it have 'f*off' written on it, or a picture of someone strangling a kitten?

I would bring this up, but probably not 'formally'. If she is young and naive (or stupid) then she needs educating!

Very very odd though. I can imagine people finding a a woman in a veil uncomfortable but why ask them to remove it?

wahwahwah · 16/12/2011 11:15

Did it have 'f*off' written on it, or a picture of someone strangling a kitten?

I would bring this up, but probably not 'formally'. If she is young and naive (or stupid) then she needs educating!

Very very odd though. I can imagine people finding a a woman in a veil uncomfortable but why ask them to remove it?

frumpet · 16/12/2011 11:24

I am well and truly flabbergasted ! i would of had to find out why a piece of cloth was so offensive ? oh come on be honest , it was made out of cerise and bottle green striped crinkle satin wasnt it ? in which case you should be arrested for crimes against fashion. On the off chance that it was a more tasteful and muted affair , YANBU at all .

frumpet · 16/12/2011 11:28

Tell her whats ok for lizzie , is ok for you . Our monarch is a staunch headscarf wearer . Now i know its not the same thing at all , but i would love to see her try to explain to you why they are different

tulipgrower · 16/12/2011 11:32

I guess a scarf with blinking fairy lights could be distracting?
I agree with everyone else who thinks this it's really, very odd behaviour on her part. OP you were so cool about it!

wahwahwah · 16/12/2011 11:33

I want one of those!

I want to know what exactly she found so distressing about a headscarf?

wahwahwah · 16/12/2011 11:36

I want one of those!

I want to know what exactly she found so distressing about a headscarf?

charitygirl · 16/12/2011 11:37

How...weird.

Anyone offended by the headscarf on the grounds of what it represents must surely see the irony in then trying to tell a woman what she should or shouldn't wear.

frumpet · 16/12/2011 11:38

Do you know what religion the girl is OP? just out of curiosity?

knittedbreast · 16/12/2011 11:39

i would really love to start wearing my scarf, but its been so long i feel i cant.

very sad about this actually.

wahwahwah · 16/12/2011 11:42

Thats just the point. Women should be able to wear it if they want. As a good friend said to his SIL 'a scrap of fabric does not make you a better person'. We was being all high and mighty (and anti Christian actually) about wearing her scarf.

Moominsarescary · 16/12/2011 11:43

I think as lots of us < me me > want to know what she found so offensive about the scarf, you should tell her boss you need to know what exactly her problem is and report back to us.

I'm nosy, and can't for the life of me understand what her problem was, she sounds crackers

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