To think that 3 kids, and planning a 4th, in a tiny 2 bedroomed house is a bit much?

[choccywoccydoohdah]

AIBU?

Someone I know had her third child 6 months ago; they live in a tiny house, literally a kitchen and living room downstairs, and 2 small bedrooms and a bathroom upstairs. The older 2 children share a bedroom and there is just enough room for a bunk bed and all their stuff, and the baby is still in with them, the cot is at the end of their bed and they cannot walk round past their bed past the cot, they have to climb over the bed to get out of the room.

Now they are planning baby #4 and have no intention of moving, as their rent is cheap but I honestly cannot see where they are going to fit baby #4. Their home is understandably cluttered on every surface with their stuff, got knows where another baby's stuff will go, let alone where it will sleep.

I'm not one for being adament every child should have its own room etc but I do think being crammed into a house like sardines isn't a good idea either. I think they are on a council/HA housing list but have been told they are very low priority as they have a roof over their heads.

else's, not wlae's!

Choccy, that will depend entirely on what benefits they are on at the moment. The welfare bill is being cut, all current benefits will be scrapped and replaced with a Universal Benefit which will be capped - projected at a level of £500 per week in April 2013. According to Family Action "welfare caps will penalise couples and, according to Government figures, cost affected families an average of £93 per week."

There is also more information on the CPAG site.

I live in a house similar to your description. We have two children and it can be stressful at times living in such cramped conditions. I hope that by the time ds1 is a teenager we will be in a position to upsize as teenagers need some privacy.

Personally, I feel the woman in question is being irresponsible to plan on having such a large family when she can't accommodate them.

Olgaga - not entirely true - not all benefits will be scrapped. IIRC, contribution based ESA and JSA, and DLA will not be affected.

SallyAndrews - true, but the only benefit OP has mentioned is tax credits. She said "they are very reliant on TCs, and have said that it has been great since number 3 arrived as they are much better off financially". CTC and WTC will be scrapped.

This is what CPAG says about the benefit cap:

"A cap will be introduced on the total benefits that a claimant or her/his partner can receive in a particular period. The cap is linked to average weekly earnings of a working household after deductions for tax and national insurance.

This is expected to affect, in particular, families with three or more children who are out of work and households in high rent areas ? around 50,000 households in Britain. The DWP estimates that, on average, those affected will lose £93 a week in benefit".

Not that the figures for estimated loss come from the Department of Work and Pensions. So those are the government's own figures.

You also need to factor in the government's plans to link increases in benefits to earnings rather than inflation.

So, stagnation in earnings, the rising cost of rented accommodation and increasing food and fuel price inflation, followed by the inevitable interest rate rises.

It's going to have a massive effect on families who rely on these benefits.

Olgaga raises a very good point which seems to have been missed about the (serious) negatives of overcrowding.

It wouldn't be my choice. I'd hate to live so cramped up and with noone having any room for their things or any privacy or space.

My choice, each to their own. So long as they then don't start whinging about lack of space later on - fair enough.

Children need love and cuddles and attention - if they are guarenteed that then have 10 children for all i care! I think this is hardly overcrowding so long as the parents really want a big family and love the reality of all the hard work etc.

But, as i said earlier, the attitude that 'the state will provide' is just a bad message to give your children imo. I'm not a snob - i think most people would agree...?

Bit of a difference though in saying that it wouldn't be your choice (wouldn't be mine either) to what the OP posted, no?

Posting about cluttered surfaces? Someone OP 'knows'. Whatever happened to 'live and let live'? Do people really need 'slapping down' if their choices are different?

I don't understand how some people can invest so much time and energy into noseying and speculating on other people's lives. I'm too busy trying to keep my own shit together to be benchmarking myself against people who have or do more/less.

Lots of options:
they can get a triple bunk in the DCs' room
they can get a sofa bed in the living room and the parents can sleep there
they can co-sleep with the yougest until 2ish
maybe by the time the 4th will need a bed the eldest will have left school

what are the genders of the older DCs?- are you suspicious that they are having no. 4 to get a council house?

Lyingwitchinthewardrobe, what exactly did I post that was so offensive? No slapping down from here, much as you are trying to read that into what I said.

How dare the lower classes procreate!
Actually YABU! Its none of your business. As for the how dare they claim TC comments, is there now a lower earning threshold before someone is allowed to have children? It May have escaped peoples attention, but there are low paid jobs in this country, and someone has to do them. Does that mean that the plebs who do them arent allowed to have babies? Or just be rationed to one? Because as far as I am aware, it is a free country. Many people on quite good wages get TC, if that is all they are claiming, then whats the problem? They dont want a bigger house, they are happy.

We have a simelar set up to lockets and our DC seem to be very happy and doing well.

I grew up in a small house. I Wouldn't say we were seriously under-housed, but it was cramped and space and privacy were hard to come by. It does affect how you feel as a kid. Sleepovers were a complete no no (shared bedrooms, no space) fighting over the toilet is dull .... Personally I would not want to raise my children without enough space for us all to enjoy life

Who wants bloody 'sleepovers' anyway!?

Children tend to

if the kids want sleepovers when older,then will chuck air beds down in the living room.

so far all sleepovers have involved air beds on the floor of their room and fun has been had by all children, whether or not they are the guests friend.

Exactly!! If sleepovers have to happen, then it can be a make do thing, not forking out on extensions/bigger mortgage debt, so a few over excited school kids can invade once in a while.

actually i might get more sleep if i allow sleepovers in the living room [ponders] will have to set up pin numbers on the bt vision box though hmmmm

I'm not for a moment suggesting anyone should build an extension to house a sleepover!! I was simply pointing out my perspective as a child and teen living in a small cramped house and sharing rooms. I'm not saying it was the end of my world, just that there were aspects of it which were a real grind and it made me value quite highly the prospect of privacy and space for my own kids

I don't care

My great grandmother brought up 5 boys in a two up-two down. My father was brought up in a two-up two down with 2 sisters.

We then had 4 children in a 3 bed house. The three boys shared a room until we managed to move to a slightly bigger house when they were 11, 10, 8 and 6.

Can't see it's that big a deal really.