To think that 3 kids, and planning a 4th, in a tiny 2 bedroomed house is a bit much?

[choccywoccydoohdah]

AIBU?

Someone I know had her third child 6 months ago; they live in a tiny house, literally a kitchen and living room downstairs, and 2 small bedrooms and a bathroom upstairs. The older 2 children share a bedroom and there is just enough room for a bunk bed and all their stuff, and the baby is still in with them, the cot is at the end of their bed and they cannot walk round past their bed past the cot, they have to climb over the bed to get out of the room.

Now they are planning baby #4 and have no intention of moving, as their rent is cheap but I honestly cannot see where they are going to fit baby #4. Their home is understandably cluttered on every surface with their stuff, got knows where another baby's stuff will go, let alone where it will sleep.

I'm not one for being adament every child should have its own room etc but I do think being crammed into a house like sardines isn't a good idea either. I think they are on a council/HA housing list but have been told they are very low priority as they have a roof over their heads.

What are the councils rules?

Yes Cogito, you have summed up my thoughts exactly.

gosh a 2 bed house AND 'friends' like you sitting in judgement over them, sneering over their lifestyle and disapproving over their family. Deep Joy!

Perhaps you should try living in close quarters for a while - we don't have a dining table, I have 2 kids and a small one bedroom flat. Not ideal at all - however there are some really wonderful and unexpected upsides to it, and living so close together is bloody marvellous. You have a closeness and intimacy you don't get when everyone has more individual space.

In London where I live it's surprisingly 'normal' for families of one or two children to live in one bed flat & family of 3 to live in 2 bed flat.

YABU!

I wouldn't want to do it but its ok for me, I have 4 dcs in a 4 bed house (youngest 2 share) so I can't get all judgey about other people wanting 4 dcs just because they don't have room for a table. My mum was one of 9 and they were brought up in 2 rooms (actual rooms, not bedrooms) with a earth toilet shared with 4 other families until the council rehoused them on a new estate after the war. I know they must have managed to study as they all went to the grammar school, most went to university and 2 have phds. They get enormous pleasure out of each other as adults, all are quite successful so it looks like the long term gain of having such a big family has paid off, for them at least.

Cogito- you're right, but unless the OP is housing officer or social researcher, what is the benefit of her having an opinion on her friend's housing situation?

There are also good arguments to be made about not building new housing stock while the existing stock is inefficiently used, the need for a younger generation to pay taxes and look after the older generation, but really what is the use of those of us without influence wringing our hands and judging.

I'd say stronger than 'what is the use'- its a negative and unhealthy mindset.

It is HoHo - we had to move out of London to be able to ever afford a house.

I don't understand, helpmenow, so Cogito is allowed that opinion but you don't think I am allowed it as I'm not a housing officer or social researcher?

It's interesting to see so many people are saying that this would be perfectly normal in other cultures or in previous generations.

I don't think this is relevant - it's not a way I would choose to bring up children today, here, partly because it would be so unusual and I know it can be pretty unpleasant to grow up knowing that your family is considered weird.

(On the other hand, I can see that that's an argument against parents being unconventional in any way, which is obviously totally U. Hmmm.)

cogito pointed out some disadvantages of overcrowding and I suggested some advantages. My point being that its a rare situation that doesn't have disadvantages as well as advantages.

But unless its affecting you personally or you can do something about it (for example as ahousing officer or social researcher) I'm suggesting judging this family is an unhealthy mindset for you to have.

This is where AIBU goes wrong... instead of asking about something that directly affects you, some posters just can't function without running other people down for their choices. Without exception they sound like judgemental knobs with self-esteem issues.

I think it's OK to have an opinion where children's wellbeing is at stake. Same as I had an opinion about my idiot DB storing some seriously nasty power-tools in a room that my toddler DN would totter through on a regular basis. Not saying that sharing three to a room is the same as cutting yourself on an angle-grinder, but I can see why the OP is concerned.

Yes councils do have benchmarks on overcrowding. When my friend's daughter had a baby, this bumped up the total number of people in their council house over the acceptable maximum, and she was offered a flat. We tell horror stories of Victorian slums where children sleept top to tail 'and the little one said roll over' or .... surely it's worrying if a family wants to recreate that?

cogito

council rules are flexiable as were about to move into one and by their own standards we are going to be over crowded . 4dc and moving into 3 bed (ds1 17, ds2 15, dd age 8 and ds3 age 6 but has sn so more like a 4 year old

But by theor own admission its best fit so were taking it and am happy enough we shall just squeeze in a nd muddle through

Choccy didn't you say they have no intention of moving? So they're not having a child to get a bigger house? In fact, didn't you hint that their house isn't actually a council or HA house? Or did I get that wrong?

My mother likes to disapprove of people too. She's the queen of the cat's bum face and is a bitter person who likes to point out what's wrong with other people rather than sorting herself out. I seriously dislike talking to people who like to talk about other people's living situations only to judge them and rain scorn upon them. It's petty and vindictive and a total waste of energy. Plus, when someone is gossiping to me about someone else I automatically think they much be gossiping about me to other people. Gossipy judgy people make poor untrustworthy friends IME.

offically i should have at least 4 bedrooms by their own rules and even more the 2 bedrooms that be shared are the 2 smalles ( i cant swap a smine has thru floor lift in for me O)

CailinDana said-My mother likes to disapprove of people too. She's the queen of the cat's bum face and is a bitter person who likes to point out what's wrong with other people rather than sorting herself out.

In anutshell why judging others is not healthy.

This is where AIBU goes wrong... instead of asking about something that directly affects you, some posters just can't function without running other people down for their choices. Without exception they sound like judgemental knobs with self-esteem issues.

Well put LWW - reading the OP again, she is basically just extending an invitation for MN'ers to come and gossip about her "friends", sneer at their lifestyle and despise them for having another baby whilst living in such 'scandalous' and unacceptable conditions. The house is CLUTTERED!!!

OP you should stop gossiping, butt out, get on with your own life. Your friends sound perfectly happy despite their lack of material wealth - is this what is annoying you so?

YY CailinDana... that way ulcers lie and there won't be a steady procession of people wanting to visit you either.

The OP (the post), sounds horribly gossipy, meddling and just itching to get agreement to validate the nastiness.

It would be a total hypocrite that denied ever having a judgemental opinion about someone. And I disagree that it's necessarily unhealthy. Possibly if your entire time is taken up bitching about what others are supposed to have done wrong... definitely not if the behaviours or attitudes of others are offensive or irresponsible.

I think in the long run, the kids will be happy that they had siblings, even if it means less personal space now. That said, I think they are overcrowded and it's not responsible imo, to have a 4th baby in a 2 bedroom house.

A practical solution would be to give the children the 2 bedrooms and for the mum and dad to buy a sofa bed and sleep in the sitting room. That would be my choice, so that my dc could have space to themselves.

Well, since they are renting it is not a permanent situation. They might get a council house, or they might rent a bigger one, or one of them might get a fab job, or they might get inheritance and buy, or the eldest might leave in few years. Who knows?

If our parents had your attitude then most of us wouldn't be here.

Loft conversion or extension at a later date?

Cogito... but thinking up things about others to disapprove of? That don't affect your life a whit? Of course people judge but if that extends to making comments about things you don't know anything about really, rather than trying to help then what's the point other than to bolster a spiteful person's need for back-up of their nasty disapprovals?

There are posters here who grew up with having to share limited space as well as posters who had plenty of it. In one fell swoop the OP is trying to cut people down to size in her tiny mind. It must be a tiny mind, blinkered and judgemental people always have them.

i dont think its that unusual tbh i know a lady with 5 dc in a 1 bedroom flat
personally i would find it stressful to be overcrowded i think, but if they are desperate for another dc and no chance of moving straight away, i suppose they just think 'will have to make it work somehow'

Oh - just read they are renting - scratch my last post.