to find it slightly depressing that 80% of the Christmas cards we've received are addressed...

[flowerytaleofNewYork]

.."Mr & Mrs [DH's initial] [DH's surname]"?

I probably am. It doesn't matter in the scheme of things, but really, it's 2011 and I am not an appendage of my DH. It wouldn't occur to me to address anything in that way.

It's not just older people, it's our age and younger as well.
They all know my name.
If they don't want to put both initials which I agree would be a mouthful, or an envelope full, they could just put The [Surname] Family, or Mr and Mrs [Surname].

Totally hypocritically, I did take DH's surname when we got married, but at least that actually is my name. At no point did I relinquish my first name as well.

Grrr.

I'm not attached either, but I'm not going to quibble about anything as trivial as an envelope, and neither I am I going to waste time handwriting the surname twice when I can get away with once. If I have friends who are so touchy they make an issue of it I don't think they are the sort of nit pickers that I would like.The envelope is torn open and thrown away. If it was something lasting I would bother-but not for the rubbish bin.

"If I have friends who are so touchy they make an issue of it I don't think they are the sort of nit pickers that I would like"

well you would like the OP then as she hasn't made an issue of it, but has just talked about her feelings anonymously instead. this is not an "am I unreasonable to have told my MIL not to address xmas cards to my husband's name" thread.

YANBU

I HATE it, too. With a passion. Sooo oldfashioned...

Got a card from a family member recently, from Dr and Mrs [his first name] [his surname] addressed to Mr and Mrs [DH neverendingannoyingcold] when I am a Dr, too! If you are so particular about the correct address (insisting on PhD) it should work both ways. Anyway, wrote card back and made a point to emphasize Mr [DH neverendingannoyingcold] and Dr [neverendingannoyingcold]. If someone is anal at me I'll be anal back!!!

It's sexist and outdated. Fact. Why on earth do people take their husband's name anyway?

Apologies if this has already been said (long thread and all), but if it really doesn't matter and those of us who object are making a big old fuss about nothing, why doesn't anyone address envelopes to 'Mrs and Mr Her Initial His Surname'? Does anyone seriously think that the husbands concerned would think that was perfectly fine?

It DOES matter. It IS significant. It IS a hangover from a time when wives were their husband's property.

Other than that completely agree with Marlene. If you want to be polite, you should listen to what other people tell you about how they like to be addressed - whether you think it's trivial or not - and don't mutter away under your breath about what a PITA they are to care about such things. I've never been able to comprehend why women take their husbands' surnames anyway, but if I insisted on addressing my married friends by their maiden names I'd be a complete arse, wouldn't I?

*If I found out that I had upset someone because of the way I addressed an envelope to them.... that would be the last frigging card they would be getting off me.

If someone is so petty over such a trivial matter, they arent worth the trouble of bothering sending a card to.*

If somebody sent me a card and I politely told them that I prefer not to be adressed in a certain manner (that renders me invisible and part of my husband not myself), I wouldn't want one from them if they had an attitude like that. It is a fairly minor thing, however the small, trivial matters that still pervade how we think and how we treat people reflect that women are still not equal in society.

^iif it's a same sex male couple then the options surely are:

Messers Surname & Surname
First name Surname & First name Surname
First name & Firstname^

So why are people so adament that for Mr. & Mrs. the woman should be referred to by her husband's name? If etiquette can cope with same sex couples, surely it can cope with women not being their husband's property anymore? If people want a quick, easy way to address a card, is it not easier just to write Mr. & Mrs?

The thing is saying "but that's correct according to etiquette" assumes that etiquette and manners are static and never change, and most importantly are never to be questioned. I find that attitude quite sad.

This. Exactly. It's all very well to say 'oh, but it's sweet/old fashioned/traditional/etiquette', however many things used to be so but it does not make them right. It's traditional for the woman to take her husband's name and become Mrs., but that doesn't mean that it should be that way now if the woman does not wish it to be.

My nan is 78 yet she manages not to address me like that, despite being quite old fashioned in her views.

"Family Surname" or "Mr and Mrs Surname" does not take that much longer to write. I would be fine with that, even though I didn't change my name. Actually Mr And Mrs Surname takes less time than Mr and Mrs Hisname Surname. So no, I don't believe the "oh but it's too time-consuming otherwise" excuse.

I took note today (not having paid any attention before) and they all came Mr&Mrs- his initial-surname. If someone asks me to change I will ,but I'm not going to bother unless they ask.

It must be the circles you move in as ours have Mr and Mrs Mincepie on them, no reference to DH's nitial or name. We are obviously not old-skool enough

I wouldn't write it like that. If I was going to take account I would do as a friend does and write Mr -his initial-our surname and Mrs-my initial-our surname and that is the whole reason that I don't-it takes twice the time!

muffinino82 wrote:

iif it's a same sex male couple then the options surely are:

Messers Surname & Surname
First name Surname & First name Surname
First name & Firstname

So why are people so adament that for Mr. & Mrs. the woman should be referred to by her husband's name? If etiquette can cope with same sex couples, surely it can cope with women not being their husband's property anymore? If people want a quick, easy way to address a card, is it not easier just to write Mr. & Mrs?

I don't know muffinino82 (that's me you quoted there) because to me I think that the options for a married couple are

Mr & Mrs Surname
Firstname & Firstname Surname
Firstname & firstname
Firstname Surname (this being the person you know better)

or when the surnames differ

Mr Surname & Mrs (or Ms) Surname
Firstname Surname & Firstname Surname
Firstname & Firstname
Firstname Surname (this being the person you know better)

(by the way I just realised that "Firstname Surname (this being the person you know better)" should have been one the same sex couple addesses too

So in a nutshell in answer to your question why if etiquette can cope with same sex couple why can't they cope with woman not being property any more, I can't say it does. The above is my opinion on what the options could be, and I would never refer to a woman as having her husbands fistname, because she doesn't (well unless she's Chris and he's Chirs or something to the like because then they have the same name )

Maybe we need to ask those that think it's 'proper', 'correct' 'etiquette' or 'easier' to refer to a woman has having her husbands firstname what they thing about address same sex couples. Do they give more thought to it than then do when writing to a different sex couple who have different surnames.

I change my name on marriage. Don't overly see it as 'his surname', it's mine too. I wanted my family to have the same name as each other. Did give thought to not changing it, to double barrelling it. But for the first option of the not changing it I didn't one one of us to have a different surname to any children me might have and with double barrelling I thought where does it end?! What is our children meet and want to marry someone who also have a double barrel name, they end up with a quadrupedal barrel name. And them what!! It could end up with my grandchildren having running out of ink just after just signing their name (NB there's a slim chance I have thought this)

Mind you saying that i still use my birth surname on occasion.

In an update, ratio is holding steady at about 80% addressed as Mr & Mrs [DH's initial] [surname]

Everyone else is saving themselves time, ink and the appearance that they believe it is 1951 by just putting Mr & Mrs [surname]

My husband and I often had cards addressed to Mr and Mrs Smith or Mr and Mrs J Smith after we were married even though I kept my previous name and lots of them knew it. It could be that they didn't know how to address an envelope in such circumstances.

The first Christmas showed it up but I said nothing out of politeness Every year since, I have kept a note of who addresses me as Mrs J Smith or Mrs Smith and when I have written letters to them or sent cards to them, I put a sticky label on the back saying 'From J Smith and B Jones'. Over the years the message has got through. There are only a couple left now and they are the oldest and just stuck in the way they think.

The envelope goes in the bin so I don't care that much what's written on it.

Haven't read the whole thread (sorry) - I haven't changed my name but I don't mind people who don't know better putting Mr and Mrs [hisname] on cards; I don't mind old people putting Mr and Mrs [his initial] [hisname]. I object hugely to people who do know but still do it; but the one that gets me actually properly riled is Dr and Mrs. We both have doctorates (so Dr & Dr is fine); why does a significant proportion of our card senders choose to find his significant but mine not?? Grr.

Same here NannyOgg.

I get a bit annoyed when we get cards addressed to Mr & Mrs DHSurname, as my surname isn't the same as his. I get especially annoyed at my friend who also didn't take her husband's surname either but still addresses our card this way.

On the other end of the scale, we have my mother, who signs all correspondence to the family with "Mom&Dad, FirstName & FirstName, Grandma & Grandpa". Which is also a bit silly.

It is indeed the traditional way to address correspondence to a married couple and I think it's rather nice - I'm delighted to be Mrs Husband's name because I'm delighted to be his wife. My sense of self is endorsed through far more important things than what is written on a piece of paper - I reckon the OP is short of something to worry about.

Not trying to be superior - just stating my opinion

As smallwhitecat says, I don't need DH's last name to be prove to anyone I'm happily married. In fact, I don't need to prove it at all, so try not to type so smugly or I'll be forced to talk about the shallow ways I think you get your "sense of self".

I don't think it's unreasonable to be slightly depressed or annoyed about letters from friends and family not taking what the OP might like or feel about being addressed with her husband's name.

The fact is, I have got much weightier issues to be worried about smallwhite -or should I say that in my opinion they are much weightier cos everything is relative. Some people get upset about a broken nail!

I think you are being rather cheeky by calling me smug when in fact I am merely stating an opinion which is what this forum is all about.

And AndiMac, knock yourself out if you like coming up with ways that I get my sense of self but I stand by my post that being an individual is about far more than what's written on a piece of paper.

I've got plenty else to worry about luvvie, but that doesn't mean I can't also find little things irritating and/or intriguing.

Progress is made through people not accepting the status quo because it's 'tradition' and instead questioning and challenging it. And little things are often indicative of bigger things.

That's a fair point flowery - I guess I'm happy to accept the tradition because I don't mind it and I'm surprized it's such an issue for some people. But like you say, the little things can often be indicative of the bigger things and I can totally see that.