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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To not think my daughter should be made to use a changing room..

435 replies

hairnets · 04/12/2011 22:34

When getting changed after swimming with her Dad?

He told me today that she received a telling off ("major roasting" were his words) for refusing to use her own changing room after he took her swimming. He felt that it wasn't appropriate for her to get changed out in the open because there were other men about in the room.

She's 5.

I obviously think he's BU and I know exactly why I do but interested in what others think before I bang on about why he's BU - If that makes any sense!!

OP posts:
LRDtheFeministDragon · 05/12/2011 00:07

squeaky - IMO if the dad did not want her to see naked men (understandable, we can all agree they're not pretty and I can understand any parent wanting to avoid the comments some children come out with!), I think he should have found a solution that didn't involved telling her to go in a small space she's scared of, when he shares the same dislike of small spaces.

That just seems quite cruel to me.

He should not be pushing her to be embarrassed if she's not, either. If she doesn't understand why he wants her not to be naked/not to see naked men, does it matter? Why not let her be innocent for a bit longer and just say 'ok, but I am going to hold up this towel so you don't get draughty' or something?

EauDeLaPoisson · 05/12/2011 00:08

I think it seems the people who are so accepting of soft porn/nakedness for sexual purposes are the ones most offended by perfectly innocent nudity. Bit like the white van man who is offended by a breastfeeding mother but leers at page 3 girls on a regular basis...

Original poster
hairnets · 05/12/2011 00:09

Squeekytoy - I'm not talking about random nudity of men in their front garden's, nor am I talking about gratuitous nudity... I'm talking about a 5 year old whipping of her cossie and putting her knickers on after a swim...

OP posts:
Original poster
hairnets · 05/12/2011 00:11

But glittery, why should she do something she isnt comfortable with and that panics her, purely to placate a load of men who obviously also prefer to get changed in an open space - else they'd be in a cubicle?

Placate is the wrong word actually as we have no idea if they were uncomfortable or not.

OP posts:
MillyR · 05/12/2011 00:12

PRH, if you wouldn't like your daughter to be naked in front of her father, that is fine for your family. But in other families it is normal for parents and children to be naked in front of each other, and for parents to share baths with young children of either sex. It is down to the individual family.

Swimming pools allow children under 8 into either changing room presumably because the nudity of pre pubescent children isn't an issue to most people.

MsScarlettInTheLibrary · 05/12/2011 00:12

I have a 5 year old DD and she gets changed in either sex changing room depending on who she is with. All the changing is communal. Never occured to me to be worried about this, she certainly isn't. She clearly hasn't developed a sense of modesty, which is fine by me. They have unisex changing and toilets at her school. She regularly changes in front of her male and female friends - she has swimming lessons, I don't see how you'd avoid it. She plays dressing up all the live long day with her friends and often takes off more than she intends! I change in front of my friends, in a changing area. Not to change would be the weird bit....

YANBU OP. I understand you're not objecting to his suggestion of the cubicle and her claustrophobia is somewhat of a red herring - you're a little alamed at his reasoning wrt your child. I get that.

squeakytoy · 05/12/2011 00:14

The thing is hairnets, regardless of if you agree with him or not, and its clear that you dont.. your childs father felt uncomfortable in that situation, and he at that time was the parent in charge.

There are options. One is that you do not allow him to take her swimming until she is old enough to go unaccompanied into the womens changing room.

passionsrunhigh · 05/12/2011 00:14

lisaro yes that's right because there aren't thousands of other people who beleive that lads mags aren't good and exploit women...
it's the whole weird issue - most men can separate fantasy world from reality and their behaviour in RL. Yes, he can be a brave soldier or loving son etc., but switches to a different mode when it comes to sex for sale etc. I would agree that a man who's against seeing women as toys, and doesn't use porn, deserves big respect, as he's not a sheep in a herd for one and can actually think what it all means - but wouldn't base my respect only on that of course.

Maleeka · 05/12/2011 00:17

Just asked my other half about this and he says he would have taken her into the cubicle as a matter of course. He wouldnt even think twice about it.

Still think your ex was wrong to give her a roasting for doing something he wouldnt do, but i think he was trying to do the right thing.

festi · 05/12/2011 00:18

six pages in and im still confused, is it me or do op and exp actually hold similar views but just dont realise. Im confuzed.

Original poster
hairnets · 05/12/2011 00:19

"not allow him to take her swimming" How exactly would I go about that!? He's her dad, I have no control whatsoever on whether he takes her swimming.

I really need to get some sleep but thanks to everyone who contributed to this. Very interesting. In particular thanks to scarlet for using the words "I get that" it's good to know I'm not alone in this bizarre world!

OP posts:
LRDtheFeministDragon · 05/12/2011 00:20

I would like to know if he did feel uncomfortable. From the words quoted as his ('major roasting') it sounds as if he felt it was a simple issue of his DD being disobedient and naughty.

If so, the issue surely is not so much him feeling uncomfortable (I mean, he's an adult isn't he?), it's how the OP feels about her DD being parented by someone who doesn't take into account the fact his child is scared, and scared by something he himself doesn't like.

I know there are plenty of parents who do feel their word should always be law and even a scared child should always obey. But frankly it gives me the shivers and - assuming you don't end up doing as squeaky says and not sending her swimming with her dad any more (though I'm not sure that's an awful solution TBH) - it obviously does need hammering out. It's not possible to compromise I don't think, is it?

GlitterySkulls · 05/12/2011 00:20

hairnets-because a lot of people may feel uncomfortable, & if she's the only kid in there, it's probably easier if she just goes in the cubicle.

for what it's worth, a million naked kids running around the changing room wouldn't bother me, but i wouldn't be comfortable being naked in front of others ( that includes adults) but, i suppose other people would feel the opposite way.

you said earlier your dd was pretty independent, i assume she is able to dry/ dress herself? so the only issue is the cubicle? wouldn't it be more beneficial to her to help her over her fear, so she can have a nice day with her dad- without him getting arsey & her getting upset? ( and for in the future too, you know, help nurture that independence?)

LRDtheFeministDragon · 05/12/2011 00:21

Sorry, cross posted. Sleep well hairnets ... hope you get things sorted.

Original poster
hairnets · 05/12/2011 00:25

Thanks LRD. I've decided already not to thrash it out. I imagine the response will be the same as when I asked if he'd put the lads mags away when DD was with him which was a smug grin and a joke along the lines of how I'd no doubt be taking DD on lezzer marches as soon as she was old enough Hmm maybe I've missjudged though. If I can think of a subtle way to suggest to him he may like to look at this from a different angle I'll do so. Thanks again.

OP posts:
festi · 05/12/2011 00:27

do you know what I think it would be more carefree and discreat if he got her changed pool side or in the corrirdoor or some corner of the canteen than this be an issue. my dd has swimming lessons and the pool is a way from the school changing rooms my dd is 5 and it honestly takes me minutes to get her dryed and changed pool side before we need to run and catch the bus,

then he can get changed far quicker in the changing rooms wityh very little disruption for all involved she sits tucked into some fruit pastels, she doesnt need to see any winkies nor have any strangers view her naked body, he wips his trunks off clothes on and out. Job done!!!

WorraLiberty · 05/12/2011 00:29

Lezzer marches?

Are you sure you're not adding bells and whistles to this thread, safe in the knowledge he can't defend himself and you can write whatever you want? LOL

So he wants to protect his daughter from what you describe as leering eyes and yet he says that?

This thread doesn't make sense OP

LRDtheFeministDragon · 05/12/2011 00:32

Hair - sorry to hear that. TBH he sounds like a total prick. 'lezzer marches' - ewww!

I was thinking as well .. the thing about posting on here is it's great for getting a sense of varied opinions, some of us would agree with you, some would see his view, lots of us get distracted into other debates. But the one thing this can't replace is your gut instinct. I'd just hate to see you feel you can't tackle it just because you didn't get a consensus on here, because you never do. And none of us knows your DD and how she feels, you know?

I hope your DD is feeling ok about it. Best of luck with it all.

Original poster
hairnets · 05/12/2011 00:32

When did I say "leering eyes"!?

Gah, must go to bed.

OP posts:
festi · 05/12/2011 00:33

even better does he drive, they stick trackies on over wet bathers and get straight in the car they get dryed and changed at home. my exp sometimes does this with dd when he takes her to swimming. less fumbling and messing about.

passionsrunhigh · 05/12/2011 00:34

EauDeLP - you misconstrued my point. Yes, nothing wrong with changing and bodies per se - but you know, there are different changing rooms for men and for women - why is that then? Even in female changing rooms, women try to change without walking around too much? most of them. And why don't we all parade naked just because bodies are nothing to be ashamed of? indeed naturist like to do it, and it's their choice, but the majority don't like it - personally as an onlooker I' don't like it for AESTHETIC reasons first of all, as there are not many beautiful bodies, which I want to look at and not cringe - and in a man's changing room some can be gross! It's called respect and civilised behaviour to look presenatble in public, and there is a sexual modesty too hence women and men are separate. Needless to say in Sexual situation with your own partner you are attracted to the person (or at least their body) so nothing unplesant is imposed on you - that's why i mentioned beingfine with partners. With a little girl the best thing would be to use a big towel as someone said, and try to be further away from others - some gyms have separate areas for fathers&children too.

LRDtheFeministDragon · 05/12/2011 00:34

worra - the thread makes sense I think. It's the dad's position doesn't make sense - but that kind of confused extreme prudery about children does sometimes go together with being a sleazy person - no-one's ever so suspicious as someone who has a dirty mind themself.

storminabuttercup · 05/12/2011 00:35

Firstly I dont think your ds's father was wrong to ASK dd to go into a cubicle

Secondly, he was wrong to shout at her if she wouldn't, I'm sure that could have been handled differently

Thirdly, I think you are letting your relationship with this man cloud your judgement on this issue

I'm on the fence leaning to the side that YABU to twist this mans feelings on the whole issue to be more sinister than it probably is,

My dad is a caring, lovely, kind, sensible man, yet he wouldn't have wanted me to see other blokes (or in fact his own) bits, or for them to see mine. doesn't make him a bad person.

passionsrunhigh · 05/12/2011 00:37

festi - best suggestions! poolside changing in a towel.

MillyR · 05/12/2011 00:38

PRH, yes there are separate changing rooms for men and women, but children under 8 can get changed in either. Why is that?