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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To not think my daughter should be made to use a changing room..

435 replies

hairnets · 04/12/2011 22:34

When getting changed after swimming with her Dad?

He told me today that she received a telling off ("major roasting" were his words) for refusing to use her own changing room after he took her swimming. He felt that it wasn't appropriate for her to get changed out in the open because there were other men about in the room.

She's 5.

I obviously think he's BU and I know exactly why I do but interested in what others think before I bang on about why he's BU - If that makes any sense!!

OP posts:
samstown · 05/12/2011 16:09

I guess it sort of comes down to your attitude about nudity etc in general. I think by 5 years old a child definitely knows that there are some things that you generally keep private (by 5, boys have usually stopped the whole running around showing their willy to everyone thing!). When I taught Year 3 the boys and girls would get changed in the same classroom, however there was always much giggling and blushing if someone (boy or girl) pulled their pants down along with their skirt or trousers! I dont think that I would be comfortable with a 5 year old girl sharing a changing room and being naked with a load of naked men. I cant quite put my finger on the specific reason for it but its just the way I feel. Your DD's dad obviously feels the same way. Doesnt make him a twat (although the making her go in a cubilce when he is too chicken to himself is another matter!).

I dont know about men, but I know that women seem to fall into two camps when it comes to changing. The ones (like me), who will try and cover up completely when getting changed, not even wanting to flash a bit of boob. Ansd the ones who just seem to LOVE being naked in the changing room, stand chatting naked and bend over to talc themselves and dry their pubes with a hairdryer!

Original poster
hairnets · 05/12/2011 16:16

I'm not in either category. Whip of cossie and put clothes on in a fairly rapid fashion but not overly. I doubt anyone is interested in seeing my naked body to be honest. Why would they. It's hardly a sexual setting - sweaty and damp with chlorine in the air.

OP posts:
Moominsarescary · 05/12/2011 16:20

Unfortunately shit happens, i had known ds1s dad all my life and he turned out to be a women beating, drug taking racist bullying twat, none of which I would have described him as for the first 18 years I knew him.

He has always made his racist views known to ds along with all his other disgusting habits.

Ds is nearly 17 now and doesn't hold any of the views his dad does, actually he thinks he's a right nobber. What I'm trying to say is just because your dd is exposed to her fathers views does not mean she will hold them herself, she also has you to teach her.

blobtobetter · 05/12/2011 17:25

Hairnets - "See, I think that reading lad's mags (whilst not making someone an entirley bad person) does suggest low moral fibre and if I had known that about him I wouldn't have "fucked" him. I had sex with him after a few dates and fell pregnant by accident."

Reading lads mags equals low moral fibre and yet sleeping with someone after a few dates (without knowing what sort of person he is) equals better morals?

AnyFuckerForAMincePie · 05/12/2011 18:36

blob

yes, I agree with your statement < pat on back >

MsEltoeNWhine · 05/12/2011 22:11

blob - he also did that, let's not forget.

Or did she sleep with him all by herself?

Maybe he seduced her by taking his clothes off randomly. Or maybe just showed a bit of ankle and she couldn't help herself Xmas Hmm

cheeseandmarmitesandwich · 05/12/2011 22:39

I would be more concerned about DD seeing a load of naked men in the blokes changing room tbh. I wouldn't like to go in there, so wouldn't want DD to if it could be avoided.

Most swimming pools have family cubicles don't they? If not I would look for one that does.

cheeseandmarmitesandwich · 05/12/2011 22:39

I would be more concerned about DD seeing a load of naked men in the blokes changing room tbh. I wouldn't like to go in there, so wouldn't want DD to if it could be avoided.

Most swimming pools have family cubicles don't they? If not I would look for one that does.

blobtobetter · 06/12/2011 07:00

MsEltoeNWhine - "blob - he also did that, let's not forget.

Or did she sleep with him all by herself?

Maybe he seduced her by taking his clothes off randomly. Or maybe just showed a bit of ankle and she couldn't help herself "

My point was that the both have done things that weren't exactly moral - no higher ground for either of them.

From the OPs posts it seemed like her behaviour was glossed over and the focus was on his low moral fibre due to reading lads mags!

nooka · 06/12/2011 07:25

What's immoral about having sex with someone after a few dates? I see that in a totally different league to buying soft porn misogynistic rubbish magazines and not even putting it away when your 5 year old visits. I would have thought a few pages of that would be way more damaging than a flash of a penis or two in a changing room.

Dads taking their small children swimming isn't surely so rare that the men have never come across a little girl in 'their' changing room is it? I've known quite a few dads who take their children swimming, and one of our local pools didn't have cubicles at all. Certainly no one objected to my (small) ds coming with me - he was one of many little boys there. If you are concerned the simplest answer is to take them wearing a dress to you can pop it on with nothing showing to anyone. Generally most people who cover up (me included) do so more because they are embarrassed about their bodies than especially modest.

Wamster · 06/12/2011 08:44

Nothing immoral about sleeping with somebody after a few dates, however, this sort of behaviour is exactly like that outlined in Zoo and Nuts magazines.

In other words, if you're the sort of gal who sleeps with a man after a few dates, you are the stereotypical Zoo or Nuts girl.

Sorry, hairnet, sleep around as much as you like, but don't think you're better than your ex-you are not.

I also cannot get how you fell pregnant after a few dates. Most women I know are bloody careful if only dating-yeah if in long-term relationship, people may get a bit slack about things. They're human- and have free will over contraception (obviously, if they are oppressed or are tragically raped it is different).
In other words, you seem to be an adult woman who had free reign over contraception living in a country where it is freely available and got pregnant all the same yet you think you're superior to your ex?!

I feel that all of this is down to the fact that you dislike him. Because, although what he did was over the top, it's pretty f*ing easy to understand his view point all the same.

Wamster · 06/12/2011 08:56

By the way, if you're hoping to garner support for getting him out of your dd's life here on the grounds of what he did-which I suspect you are trying to do- why else are you still plugging away with this one?- forget it, no court in the land is going to put your ex down as a bad father on the grounds that he did not want her getting changed in a room full of naked men.
Either that, or you're, erm, letting yourself get carried away on this matter.
Whatever you do, don't push this one: frankly, you are the one who seems the lax parent here to me, not your ex. I shall explain here:
You seem-and correct me if I am wrong- quite prepared to put your daughter at risk-and, remember, a sports centre professional has said here that perverts are attracted to these places, just to point score against your ex.

LRDtheFeministDragon · 06/12/2011 09:10

'In other words, if you're the sort of gal who sleeps with a man after a few dates, you are the stereotypical Zoo or Nuts girl.'

Erm, no, actually you're not. But why the dislike of the girls in Zoo or Nuts here? Isn't that a bit like being anti-fur and saying 'ew, if you wear that coat you're just like a rabbit'. Ie., kind of missing the point.

Whatmeworry · 06/12/2011 09:16

Yes I know that Panto. But there are a lot of people who don't agree. So, my point is that I want DD to know that no matter how naked she is - a man's actions aren't her fault or responsibility

She's 5 - a bit young for your agendas OP. Her dad was in the situation, he made the call. A 5 yr old should do what his/her parent tells her.

AnyFuckerForAMincePie · 06/12/2011 09:24

Gosh, Wamster, I had quite forgotten how nasty your posts can be

Wamster · 06/12/2011 09:25

I don't believe that apart from hairnets there is a dislike of Zoo or Nuts readers here, not on the deep level that she seems to have of them, anyway, I think this is her problem, actually, she is clearly the sort of girl who attracts Zoo or Nuts readers and she hates that fact. Hence the bile towards her ex.

As for bringing Zoo and Nuts into this, I agree that a man may objectify women through these magazines, but extending this objectification -as the opening poster has done- to children is something that I don't get. Is the opening poster insinuating that Zoo and Nuts readers are more likely to see children as objects?! Sure they may see women as objects-even then it's probably just bravado on their part. True hatred of women appears in 'Hustler', not 'Zoo' or 'Nuts'.

I don't think it is the sort of girl who sleeps with Zoo or Nuts girls that repulses people, it is the opening poster's hypocrisy. Slagging this guy off, while not seeing herself that she is no better than him (according to her own standards that is. Nobody else's. I don't judge here on the number of sexual partners she has)

LRDtheFeministDragon · 06/12/2011 09:29

Maybe I am innocent, but I would have thought a lot of women have a deep level of dislike of Zoo/Nuts readers. No-one I know would ever defend them and if you look at how many signatures campaigns to get top shelf mags removed from children's sight, you will see it's not a niche concern.

The post isn't being hypocritical - how? Confused She finds softcore porn morally questionable. You don't have to agree, but that is what she thinks. You seem to assume she must therefore also object to consensual sex between adults and single motherhood. Why? They're not related issues.

squeakytoy · 06/12/2011 09:39

I used to occasionally work in my husbands shop. Plumbers merchants, so very male orientated, and apart from me, all male staff.

There were often lads mags like Zoo and Nuts hanging around. I read them when I was bored and there was no work to do.

I do not see any difference in them to the magazines aimed at women like Chat, Take a break.. that often have features on male celebrities, with the emphasis on their body, six pack, bum etc..

It is not "misogynists weekly", they are magazines, aimed at heterosexual men, in the same way that there are magazines aimed at heterosexual women.

They are not "top shelf" magazines.

LRDtheFeministDragon · 06/12/2011 09:41

Btw, whatme, how come she's too young for her mum's agendas but not her dad's? Or do you think it's excellent parenting for her to be confused because with her mum she's told one thing and with her dad, the opposite?

LRDtheFeministDragon · 06/12/2011 09:42

I knew there was a reason I don't read Chat! Grin

(Kidding. In case it needs to be said. Hmm)

LRDtheFeministDragon · 06/12/2011 09:45

I find it a bit confusing that someone would object to a five year old's nakedness in public, in a context where you're getting naked because you need to change for swimming, ie. in order to do some healthy exercise .... and have no problem with a child seeing softcore porn. What am I missing here?

AnyFuckerForAMincePie · 06/12/2011 09:45

I think that mags that feature 2 silicon-enhanced women rubbing their nipples together on the front page are top shelf

Call me silly

Wamster · 06/12/2011 09:45

I don't think my posts are nasty here, AnyFuckerForAMincePie, not at all. I do think that the opening poster has some dubious agenda going on here, though.

Man doesn't want daughter getting changed in room full of naked blokes. Now if this is paranoia generated by the fact that perverts are everywhere, I can't blame him for it. Yes, he should have dealt with the situation differently. But if his intentions were sound, to protect his daughter, then that makes him a good dad, not a bad one.
Nothing anybody says here will get her to acknowledge this. She bizarrely makes some connection about him being a Zoo or Nuts reader and him being a bad father. What a tenuous link that is. Grasping at straws to say the least.
I wouldn't want to go out with a guy who read Zoo or Nuts, but lads don't appeal to me. Nor do blokes. I don't, however, think that they will make rotten dads on the fact that they read these magazines.
It just seems that any excuse to point score against her ex is being used here-with the flimsiest of reasons.

Moominsarescary · 06/12/2011 09:47

I agree with squeaky can't see what all the fuss is about zoo and nuts

LRDtheFeministDragon · 06/12/2011 09:48

The point is that it's slightly contradictory to object to your five year old getting naked in teh course of getting changed, and to refuse to remove porn from where she might see it.

Do you not get this?

I mean, if this bloke were simply very relaxed about nudity, or simply very strict about it, it'd make sense. it's teh contradiction she's saying si weird, isn't it?