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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

TO WONDER WHY WOMEN DONT MIND BEING 2ND CLASS CITIZENS

489 replies

MrsClown · 02/12/2011 11:10

I am a feminist. I am 52 years old with 4 grown up children. I shave my legs, paint my nails and wear make up. I am heterosexual and married. I just wondered, why do people assume that I have hairy legs and am a lesbian! Yes, some feminists are lesbians but we are a mixed bunch. Also, can anyone tell me why most women do not mind the fact that they cant walk around where they want to at night, and if they do and something happens they get part of the blame. Why dont women mind that the list of BBC Sports Personality is all male. Why dont women mind that other women are being bought and sold for sex and some are trafficked. If women do mind, why do they not at least attempt to do something about it. Why do most women ridicule me when I say I am a feminist, after all I am in good company (Annie Lennox, Helena Kennedy, Josie Long, Diane Abbott etc). Why do most women think it is ok for men of all ages (including elderly men) have the right to leer at a woman's body (who is probably young enough to be their grand daughter) every day in a 'newspaper'. I could go on. Is there no end to what women will put up with.

I am not being callous with my questions. I have been a feminist for about 40 years and things dont seem to be that much better for women, infact the objectification is much worse. I wondered if anyone would answer me to satisfy my curiosity. I have been ridiculed by so many women during discussions. Everyone is entitled to their opinion but it is usually the non fem who gets annoyed and starts getting upset. Infact, on many occasions men have agreed with me! I cant understand why a mother would not want her daughter to have the same rights as her son.

Sorry to go on but I hope someone will satisfy my curiosity.

OP posts:
GypsyMoth · 02/12/2011 11:14

I think you are over generalising here.....

BertieBotts · 02/12/2011 11:15

You know we have an entire feminist section?

Most women don't mind because they don't see an alternative.

Hullygully · 02/12/2011 11:15

I think you'll find that mostly they do mind.

NinkyNonker · 02/12/2011 11:16

Definitely over generalising. Who is accepting what and how do you expect others to prove to you that they don't?

Dalrymps · 02/12/2011 11:16

I do mind. It's very annoying.

AgentZigzag · 02/12/2011 11:17

I'm not a fucking second class citizen.

CandyCaner · 02/12/2011 11:17

There are plenty of women who are feminists on MN, and who do care and are active on these issues. . Why don't you pop in to the Feminist section? You will be made every welcome.

Personally, I do find it depressing when women say they aren't feminists, or reduce feminism to man-hating and bloke-bashing. What is wrong with wanting equality for women? I find it particularly depressing that we seem to be raising a generation of girls who think all the battles have been won and there is nothing more to fight for. How wrong they are.

NinkyNonker · 02/12/2011 11:17

Damn, posted too soon. I have never felt like a second class citizen.

NoobyNoob · 02/12/2011 11:18

I mind, I'm certainly not a second class citizen!

Original poster
MrsClown · 02/12/2011 11:19

I know there is a fem thread. I go on it. I wanted to get some answers from the non fems.

I am feeling a bit down at the moment. I am in one of my 'when will this fight be over'.

SaraS - I am not over generalising. If I was there would be more fems than non fems. I just wanted a different point of view. I struggle to understand why women dont feel the need to be equal and have the same rights as men.

OP posts:
AntiqueAnteater · 02/12/2011 11:19

surely its my choice as a woman to sell my photos to the newspapers for "men to leer over" if i want to

AntiqueAnteater · 02/12/2011 11:20

frankly i feel as a woman I have many more choices and rights and more is skewed in my favour than many men enjoy.

I cant stand it when a woman gets preferential treatment because of whats between her legs, rather than if she is suitable and can do the task better than anyone else

AgentZigzag · 02/12/2011 11:21

I can't stand it when women claiming to be feminists put other women down as powerless flowers with no control over the world they live in.

AgentZigzag · 02/12/2011 11:21

X-posts with your 'I can't stand it' AA Grin

SanTEEClaus · 02/12/2011 11:22

Just because I don't post on the feminist boards does not mean I am not a feminists. It means the constant righteous indignation makes me tired.

CandyCaner · 02/12/2011 11:22

Education has a lot to do with it. Many women are just very poorly educated and don't really understand the issues. That may sound patronising, but it is true. Most people who are politicised have had at least some education on the matter.
Sadly, in the UK, a lot of people get their politics from the Sun or Daily Mail.

Original poster
MrsClown · 02/12/2011 11:23

Antique, what about self respect. It reduces women to being sex objects. Doesnt it bother you that women of all ages do not have the same option to leer at young fit men. I know Heat (or some other drivel magazine) have hunk of the week or something but I am talking about the general press. It is not a morality issue it is an equality issue.

NoobyNoob, dont be offended. I know you are not a 2nd class citizen. My God, women do not know their own strength. What I am asking is why do women not feel the need to change the fact that they are not seen as equal in society and dont have the same rights as men.

OP posts:
CandyCaner · 02/12/2011 11:25

I think it is sad that people view the exploration and discussion and debate on the Fem threads as 'righteous indignation', especially by other women. There is very little space in our society to discuss and debate these issues. I dont always agree with all perspectives on the Feminist threads (I am not a radical feminist) but I appreciate that they are there and that there are some women brave enough and intelligent enough to be raising these issues.

Trills · 02/12/2011 11:25

YABU to SHOUT in your thread title.

OrmIrian · 02/12/2011 11:25

I do walk where I want. I call myself a feminist although I suspect I'm not a very good one but don't give a toss whether anyone thinks I'm a lesbian. I do want my daughter to have the same rights as my sons - I think by and large she will if she wants them. I would never ridicule you for being a feminist.

I do agree with you regarding objectification. And I do agree that a lot of women have a worse time than me.

But please don't make sweeping generalisations. If you want a discussion about feminism great, if you just want to make insulting generalisations about women please go away.

Original poster
MrsClown · 02/12/2011 11:26

I AM NOT PUTTING WOMEN DOWN AS POWERLESS. I think I asked a valid question. I just want other takes on it. I think I agree with CandyCaner. Most fems have been or are at uni. I have never been to uni but luckily I had a grandmother who used to talk to me about women, self respect etc. Bless her, God she was an incredible woman.

OP posts:
riksti · 02/12/2011 11:26

Best thing I've read about the definition of feminism: tomatonation.com/culture-and-criticism/yes-you-are/

Based on that definition I would say most women are feminist - it's the connotation of the word that puts some women off actually calling themselves feminist.

OrmIrian · 02/12/2011 11:27

And anyone tells me I am a second-class citizen I will be inclined to tell them where to get off. First class all the fucking way thankyou very much! Grin

Trills · 02/12/2011 11:27

I am not a second class citizen.

If I am treated like one, or see others being treated as if they are, then I mind.

riksti · 02/12/2011 11:28

Sorry, proper link tomatonation.com/culture-and-criticism/yes-you-are